Jump to content

Moments of Foreshadowing 4


Ice Turtle

Recommended Posts

From Jaime's first chapter in AFFC:

Ser Jaime Lannister, all in white, stood beside his father’s bier, five fingers curled about the hilt of a golden greatsword. At dusk, the interior of the Great Sept of Baelor turned dim and eerie. The last light of day slanted down through the high windows, washing the towering likenesses of the Seven in a red gloom.

This may be foreshadowing the shattering of the cult of the "New Gods" by the Red Priests of R'hllor... or simply dragons burning King's Landing...!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Jaime's first chapter in AFFC:

This may be foreshadowing the shattering of the cult of the "New Gods" by the Red Priests of R'hllor... or simply dragons burning King's Landing...!

I think it could also refer to Dany v. the faith if they fight, or just the faith rearming = blood

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If truth be told, the day of her [selyse] departure cannot come too fast for me. And if the gods are good, she will take Melisandre with her.

Could Selyse and Melisandre die together, or Selyse kill Mel along with herself?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others."

Sure, this refers to Victarion, Quentyn, etc., but it could also be foreshadowing the invasion of the Others.

Also, am I the only one who sees a connection between the material of the glass candles, dragon glass, and possibly Lightbringer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If truth be told, the day of her [selyse] departure cannot come too fast for me. And if the gods are good, she will take Melisandre with her.

Could Selyse and Melisandre die together, or Selyse kill Mel along with herself?

“The gods are seldom good, Jon Snow.” Tormund nodded toward the sky.

Though it seems to me that when people wished for gods to be good it went both ways, either they were or weren't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wanted to put this in the King in Hiding thread, but since it was closed...

“Then let Lord Hornwood’s bastard be the heir,” Bran said, thinking of his half brother Jon.

Maybe Bran won't mind Jon being named in Robb's Will after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This forum seems to be Jon/Dany crazy lately, there's been like 3 threads on the two of them today alone! So... I thought I would try to find some possible foreshadowing for them :)

I was recently reading the Renly's Peach thread and saw GRRM's quote on what the peach was meant to represent:

In the second book Renly gives Stannis a peach. What did you want to tell us with that?

The peach represents... Well... It’s pleasure. It’s… tasting the juices of life. Stannis is a very marshal men concerned with his duty and with that peach Renly says: “Smell the roses”, because Stannis is always concerned with his duty and honor, in what he should be doing and he never really stops to taste the fruit. Renly wants him to taste the fruit but it’s lost.

Link

Here is the line of text of interest from a Dany ACOK chapter:

“I’ve brought you a peach,” Ser Jorah said, kneeling. It was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.

“Fruit and water and shade,” Dany said, her cheeks sticky with peach juice. “The gods were good to bring us to this place.”

“We should rest here until we are stronger,” the knight urged. “The red lands are not kind to the weak.”

“My handmaids say there are ghosts here.”

So Dany's peach, a fruit said to represent the pleasures and joys of life when Renly used it according to Martin, came from the western wall...interesting imagery that, no?

Fire Eater did a nice post a while back about how peaches foreshadow death in this series as well (which is why I remembered that scene where Dany eats the peach in the first place). The people who eat them (or even are described as having peach fuzz on their cheeks!) tend to die. I think this sort of ties into the interpretation that any Jon/Dany romance would be of the short, sweet and tragic variety with or both of them dieing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is technically foreshadowing, but where else to put this random observation?

In ASoS ch.43, the "dwarf woman"/Ghost of High Heart demands payment for her news

A skin of wine for my dreams, and for my news a kiss from the great oaf in the yellow cloak...His mouth will taste of lemons and mine of bones

The great oaf is Lem Lemoncloak. As I've suggested elsewhere- possibly the alter ego of Rhaegar Targaryen's missing friend Ser Richard Lonmouth, the Knight of Skulls and Kisses, whose arms were black and yellow, and whose cloak was in all likelihood... lemon colored ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ser Wun Wun

I think it has to do that peaches are a fruit for summer fruit, think along the lines of whom Cat called "the knights of summer" who were dying like flies with winter approaching.

I see the point of peaches and sexual desire/temptation/treason/death.

Peaches might as well symbolize the falling into temptation(whatever it is your desire) = death

Only the ones who are pacient will get their desire fullfilled, not the summer children/knights who rush into death, but the one`s who are preparing themself to survive the winter. As Sansa rejecting the pomegranate.

The peach eaters are the summer children like Achilles; going to war in their vain attempts to achieve their glory and riches only to meet their doom.

On another note:

"I'm Pate," the other said, "like the pig boy."

Jaqen is described as "the other", and Sam killed an Other. This foreshadows Sam killing Jaqen, but I think he may have some help from Alleras.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This forum seems to be Jon/Dany crazy lately, there's been like 3 threads on the two of them today alone! So... I thought I would try to find some possible foreshadowing for them :)

I was recently reading the Renly's Peach thread and saw GRRM's quote on what the peach was meant to represent:

Link

Here is the line of text of interest from a Dany ACOK chapter:

So Dany's peach, a fruit said to represent the pleasures and joys of life when Renly used it according to Martin, came from the western wall...interesting imagery that, no?

Fire Eater did a nice post a while back about how peaches foreshadow death in this series as well (which is why I remembered that scene where Dany eats the peach in the first place). The people who eat them (or even are described as having peach fuzz on their cheeks!) tend to die. I think this sort of ties into the interpretation that any Jon/Dany romance would be of the short, sweet and tragic variety with or both of them dieing.

not a kneeler had a good post on how they are associated with betrayal/regime change. Sansa and Tryion both eat peaches at times associated with Joffery's wedding/announcement of said wedding so eating a peach doesn't nec = your going to die. Given all the Ghost imagery it might foreshadow jon's death. In Dance, Dany tells Barriston that Darrio has been gone along time he may have fallen in love with A lhazareen princess. Whats Jon doing, falling in love with a wildling "princess." Her staying in Meereen causes Jon to reject her (being a Targ) initially for love of Val

Another note, (paraphrasing) Drogo has a face that gives nothing away, but has a hint of a smile. However, in Dance Dany seems obsessed with suitor's smiles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“Manderly?” Mors Umber snorted. “That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I’ve heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out.”

Could this be describing strength of Manderly's army and what will happen if someone puts a sword trough him? In ADwD he had been stabbed though not in belly IIRC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comments made by Ser Hyle Hunt riding towards the inn with Septon Meribald, Brienne, and Pod.

A forge. " Either they have themselves a smith, or the innkeep's ghost is making another iron dragon. "I hope they have a ghostly cook as well." A crisp roast chicken would set the world aright."

Speculation. Could this be a hint that Jon who has warged into Ghost while recovering will have something to do with Stannis as the iron dragon?

Also as Fire Eater and others have mentioned sometimes chicken can represent the Iron throne in KL. A crisp roast chicken (Iron throne and Tommon as king) sounds like its been burned and the Seven Kingdoms will be set aright.

Thoughts anyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've tried to search for this phrase but I can't find it in any of the Moments of Foreshadowig threads. Probably because it's too obvious. :blushing:

I'm re-reading the SoS and there's a line (Catelyn VI, US paperback, p. 671) while Robb's host in approaching the Twins:

Across the turbulent waters, Catelyn could see several thousand men encamped around the eastern castle, their banners hanging like so many drowned cats from the lances outside their tents.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She threw back the shutters and shivered as gooseprickles rose along her arms. There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

She heard the door open as her maids brought the hot water for her bath. They were both new to her service; Tyrion said the women who’d tended to her previously had all been Cersei’s spies, just as Sansa had always suspected. “Come see,” she told them. “There’s a castle in the sky.”

They came to have a look. “It’s made of gold.” Shae had short dark hair and bold eyes. She did all that was asked of her, but sometimes she gave Sansa the most insolent looks. “A castle all of gold, there’s a sight I’d like to see.”

“A castle, is it?” Brella had to squint. “That tower’s tumbling over, looks like. It’s all ruins, that is.”

Sansa did not want to hear about falling towers and ruined castles. She closed the shutters and said, “We are expected at the queen’s breakfast. Is my lord husband in the solar?”

The two castles are Castle Black and Winterfell.

Sansa starts out shivering (referencing winter), but she is witnessing dawn (referencing the Battle for Dawn... during or shortly after which both Winterfell and the Wall were constructed).

'Tumbled stone' accurately describes either castle, 'mighty keep' might reference Winterfell's Great Keep (though of course Castle Black has keeps as well), Castle Black is essentially a giant barbican.

The first color pairing she describes them with are black and grey (Night's Watch and Starks). They then go rose and gold and crimson (Boltons take Winterfell; Stannis and Mels come to Castle Black... the thousands of shades emphasizes the great numbers of people these parties bring).

The winds mushing them together foretells the combining of the forces at Winterfell and Castle Black. We already see this when Stannis' forces move from Castle Black to Winterfell. The fact that this 'mushing' occurs because of the winds references 'The Winds of Winter' as a title.

Shae sees the combined castle as gold, which is a great sign for Stannis. This foreshadows a Baratheon controlling the combined castles temporarily.

Then a tower tumbles over and everything's all in ruins. There are plenty of options for that; my favorite is the prediction that the wall will crumble along with Castle Black's towers. This leaves that castle in ruins (more than it is already).

To me this sounds more like Starks vs. Lannisters (Starks/Winterfell - black & grey, Lannisters - crimson & gold) - Lannisters destroy or attempt to destroy so much that is Stark - kill Ned, orchestrate the Red Wedding, hold Sansa, marry her to Tyrion, hunt for her and Arya to get rid of them - so all that is left after they come together (mush) is the golden castle as initially the Lannisters are the house left in control (Cersei and her child kings, Tywin until his very appropriate come uppance) , but ultimately this house will come tumbling down as well. At least one can hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me this sounds more like Starks vs. Lannisters (Starks/Winterfell - black & grey, Lannisters - crimson & gold) - Lannisters destroy or attempt to destroy so much that is Stark - kill Ned, orchestrate the Red Wedding, hold Sansa, marry her to Tyrion, hunt for her and Arya to get rid of them - so all that is left after they come together (mush) is the golden castle as initially the Lannisters are the house left in control (Cersei and her child kings, Tywin until his very appropriate come uppance) , but ultimately this house will come tumbling down as well. At least one can hope.

This one's been done, the consensus was, the Lannister/Tyrell alliance would ruin both houses

When leaving the Winterfell crypts, Bran thinks they made enough noise to wake a dragon. The key to Jon learning his heritage is in the crypts or Bran and Bloodraven will be behind Jon's resurrection. When Jamie and Brienne fight (a man and a women), Jamie refer's to it as a dance twice and when they're caught Jamie thinks they made enough noise to wake a dragon. Aegon and Dany's dance causes Jon to embrace his heritage and/or (crack pot) after taking rivenrun, Jamie Breinne and the brotherhood are involved in raising Jon. The only way this is possible is if Howland basically sends them by telling Stoneheart Arya will return to the north soon and there's tons of foreshadowing of Arya heading to the wall.

Meera tells bran that howland can talk to tree's in the kotlt story, So howland knows what Bloodraven's up to and is apart of his plans for Jon?

The Ghost of High Heart, says the faceless man has a drowned crow on his shoulder, could be just to show Euron is behind it, but if he's "dead" then he drowned?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me this sounds more like Starks vs. Lannisters (Starks/Winterfell - black & grey, Lannisters - crimson & gold) - Lannisters destroy or attempt to destroy so much that is Stark - kill Ned, orchestrate the Red Wedding, hold Sansa, marry her to Tyrion, hunt for her and Arya to get rid of them - so all that is left after they come together (mush) is the golden castle as initially the Lannisters are the house left in control (Cersei and her child kings, Tywin until his very appropriate come uppance) , but ultimately this house will come tumbling down as well. At least one can hope.

... but black isn't really a Stark color. And why do both castles start out black to grey then change to rose and gold and crimson? I'll have to think about your interpretation.

This one's been done, the consensus was, the Lannister/Tyrell alliance would ruin both houses.

I'm not happy with that interpretation because it only comes from one really tiny phrase: "rose and gold and crimson". Then it only explains the 'mushing'... what about the other colors (black and grey)? Why does it become gold? What about the tower tumbling? Barbican's and tumbled stone?

It's just not a very satisfying interpretation. Also, I would hope that just because 'a consensus' was reached; it doesn't mean things can't be reopened or discussed again.

Honestly though, IIRC I didn't find all that much discussion in the foreshadowing threads. More like a half-hearted guess at a scene that obviously means something.

There's more discussion in the Sansa threads, I think one poster also noticed the similarity between Sansa opening her window to the dawn here and then again during her snow Winterfell chapter. This further reinforces the idea that one of the castles is Winterfell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a bit of discussion about the Cloud Castle scene starting here in the Pawn to Player thread. The two castles come together as if in a marriage but one castle tumbles as if one House were conquering/destroying the other too. There is the rose and gold colors which could be Tyrell and Lannister but also the castle turning black to grey which would fit with the Nights Watch and the Starks.

I think the only other cloud castle reference we get (except maybe an Old Nan story I might be missing) is in Asha on the march with Stannis in the snow:

That seemed to amuse the northman. “I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter.

Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

I've come to connect LF's line to Sansa that "life is not a song, sweetling" with Big Bucket Wull's speech here that seems to differ and I suspect the whole cloud castle image ties in as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

Thanks for the link and the quote Ragnorak! I think you were the poster I was thinking of that noticed the similarities between this scene and snow Winterfell (I should have known).

From your post in that thread:

Clouds are the source of snow and for Sansa snow is the taste of innocence and dreams. Both this chapter and Snow Winterfell open with Sansa dreaming of home and in both chapters she throws open the shutters to make her discovery. Both have night fading into dawn. This time she just observes while the next time she goes out and actually builds her castle from the snow that falls from the clouds.

The wispy white banners are a recurring image with Jon although they are usually made snow or ice. I noticed in the Tyrion reread that even his trip north with Jon contains an image of a snow banner:

When the wind blew from the north, long plumes of ice crystals flew from the high peaks like banners

The castles start as black and grey the colors of the Starks and the Nights Watch. Would blue be one of the thousand shades of rose? Is that reaching?

So we've got the wispy snow banners (that we could connect with the snow and ice of the wall)...

... but then we've also got a wisp above Winterfell.

From Bran's very moving last glimpse of Winterfell:

Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell’s chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all.

So we've got a wispy 'banner' associated with Winterfell here. I think this connects with the wispy banners in Sansa's vision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...