Littlefinger's Downfall

[mattah84]

Littlefinger has influenced so much in this series:

1.) He lied to Catelyn about the dagger used to try to kill Bran Stark being Tyrion's. This led to both Catelyn kidnapping Tyrion on the Kings Road, and Jaime Lannister attacking Ned Stark and his men, and then fleeing Kings Landing to mass a force at Casterly Rock. Ned's honor forced him to take responsibility for Catelyn's actions, and this led to further tension between the Starks and the Lannisters.

2.) He played Ned the whole time he was in Kings Landing. He played with him so much that he even told Ned not trusting him was the wisest thing he had done since coming to King's Landing, and Ned brushed the comment off believing that Littlefinger genuinly wanted to help him. (After this scene, Eddard deserved what he got for still trusting Littlefinger) When the time came for Ned to make swift moves and preserve the throne for a true heir, he trusted Littlefinger to bring the Gold Cloaks in and brushed off Renly Baratheon's warnings about waiting. Littlefinger even told him that making sure Joffrey succeeds would be in his best interest, and he still trusted Littlefinger to bring in the Gold Cloaks and take the Lannisters into custody.

3.) After Renly's death during the War of the Five Kings, he brings the Tyrell's into the fold and sets up the betrothal of Margeary Tyrell and Joffrey Lanniser (I mean Baratheon). This alliance leads to the smashing of Stannis' host at the Blackwater, and it preserved Joffrey's throne. Tyrion played a big part in winning this battle, but Littlefinger is the one who recieved the credit from Tyrion's father Tywin for allying the Lannisters and Tyrells.

4.) Up until that point, I had always thought that Littlefinger's loyalty lied with the Lannisters. However, during Joffrey and Margeary's Wedding, he has Joffrey poisoned and the King dies. He does this in such a fashion that everybody believes he is out of the city on his way to the Vale when the wedding is taking place. Again, the blame is placed on Tyrion for a crime that he did not commit. Littlefinger also manages to have Sansa smuggled from the Red Keep and brought to his ship on the water.

5.) When Littlefinger is at the Vale, we find out from Lysa Tully that Jon Arryn's death, and her letter to Catelyn about the Lannisters, was all his idea. Later on, Littlefinger confesses to Lysa that he only loved Cat, and he throws her out of the moon door.

6.) Later on at the Vale, Littlefinger explains to Sansa that he plans to marry her to Harry the Heir, who is Lord Robert Arryn's heir should he die.

These instances described above are just some of the many things that Littlefinger has done through A Song of Ice and Fire. At first I thought he was working for the Lannisters. Anybody reading his confrontations with Ned in Kings Landing can tell he is playing with him the whole time. However, I had my doubts because of how he blamed Tyrion for the dagger. Then I was sure he was working for the Lannister's when they captured Ned and killed his men in the throne room.

His loyalty to the Lannisters seemed pretty strong to me, right up until Joffrey was poisoned to death and we found out Littlefinger was behind it. Then when he helped Sansa escape with him and brought her to the Vale, I thought in my head that all he wanted was Catelyn the whole time. Now that Catelyn was dead, Sansa was the next closest thing to her. Why else bring her to the Vale when you are about to marry Lysa Tully?

After they are in the Vale, things took a dramatic turn and I was caught so off guard when I found out Littlefinger had Lysa poison Jon Arryn and write the letter to the Starks blaming the Lannisters. Now I feel that the Littlefinger isn't out for anybody but himself. Especially after he told Lysa he only loved Cat.

Everything above is what I have been thinking about when trying to figure out what Littlefinger's demise will be. I think that it will be Sansa, since he has kind of an upsession with her, and that could lead to a fatal mistake for him should she, "Decide to play the Game of Thrones". However, it would be great if Tyrion returned to the Vale and got his retribution. I think Sansa is more likely, but Tyrion would be so much more interesting. Him and Littlefinger have had great parts in the story and they are two of the smartest characters we have been introduced to.

How does everybody else think Littlefinger will meet his demise, if he even does LOL?

[Theda Baratheon]

Sansa. It needs to be Sansa to bring him down somehow, and Oh - how satisfying that will be.

[Kyoti]

I agree, it has to be Sansa. She is developing into a shrewd and capable woman. If she doesn't unravel LF's plans and then act upon that knowledge then her entire story will have been a waste. I think she will kill LF, reveal who she truly is, and rally the Vale to either Jon (who will have the Wildlings and possibly the North behind him) or Rickon (who will have the North behind him).

[Ice Turtle]

i think it will be some brutal savage force like mountain clans or UnGregor

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I agree, it has to be Sansa. She is developing into a shrewd and capable woman. If she doesn't unravel LF's plans and then act upon that knowledge then her entire story will have been a waste. I think she will kill LF, reveal who she truly is, and rally the Vale to either Jon (who will have the Wildlings and possibly the North behind him) or Rickon (who will have the North behind him).

How so?

[Beric Zoolander]

Sansa. It needs to be Sansa to bring him down somehow, and Oh - how satisfying that will be.

I agree with this completely. And I think her chapters in the Vale show glimpses of this, how she's catching on to his plans and seeing the truth in his deceptions. The more time she spends with him the more she figures out. I like the Sansa that actually comes across as intelligent and I'm rooting for her.

[Lion of Judah]

If Stannis sits the throne Littlefingers bird is cooked.

[not in the face]

i think it will be some brutal savage force like mountain clans or UnGregor

just picture Timmett son of Timmet feeding Littlefinger's manhood to a goat.

I think Sansa will bring him down but it won't be near as dramatic as anyone thinks it will be.

[Elba the Intoner]

First of all, yes you are right that LF is only in it for himself and what he wants. He was only a "friend" to the Lannisters so long as he could maintain a position of power through them. What LF ultimately wants now is Sansa. He does have a blind spot for her as we have already seen. Him kissing her in the Eyrie where any of the servants could have (and may have) seen was a huge mistake. He's now telling her all his techniques for playing the game and she's picking up on it - like how she figured out the ruse with Lyn Corbray for example. So yes, like other have noted, Sansa will be the one to take him down. Though Tyrion also has a lot of reasons to hate LF, Sansa has been intertwined with him from the start as he was behind her family's downfall and her father's demise in particular. Since you are new here, perhaps you haven't seen the theories yet about how Petyr likely whispered into Joff's ear to behead Ned so he would not look weak. Not to mention what Petyr also had done to her friend Jeyne Poole. Sansa is on the verge of discovering much of this thanks to that info dump from Lysa just before LF killed her. She was ready to push Joff to his death and even go with him herself after Joff had Ned killed. I bet that was just a preview of how she will react once she puts together the pieces of what LF has done to her family and her father in particular.

[Blackfish Tully]

I agree, it has to be Sansa. She is developing into a shrewd and capable woman. If she doesn't unravel LF's plans and then act upon that knowledge then her entire story will have been a waste. I think she will kill LF, reveal who she truly is, and rally the Vale to either Jon (who will have the Wildlings and possibly the North behind him) or Rickon (who will have the North behind him).

If this was anybody but GRRM writing these books I would agree that it seems like Sansa would be Littlefingers downfall but GRRM has a way of never giving you the obvious plot twist so I'm inclined to think that it will not be Sansa who brings down Littlefinger but somebody we do not suspect. One thing I've noticed in reading the books is that Littlefinger is the one person who actually seems to respect Sansa intelligence. The way she picked up on how Littlefinger used Lyn Cordray to defeat the Lords Declarent and the way he has been teaching her how to play the game leads me to believe that he respects her as a potential player and he will be real careful not to allow her to get into a position to bring him down.

[bloody_mummer]

Everyone may think I am off my rocker here, but in the end I think it will be Sansa who sits on the iron throne. She startes out the exact opposite of Dany; she is slowing becoming shrewed and cunning. She alone of the Starks managed to survice in KL. I really dislike her, but she is a survivor; she knows how to play "roles"; and I think once day she will grow a pair and start acting in her own self-intetest.

[Kyoti]

How so?

Just look at the way she handles the Lords of the Vale. They way she is able to calm and to a degree manipulate Sweetrobin (I know, not hard, but still better than earlier Sansa). Look at how she is playing her role perfectly as Allayne. She is even showing signs of having figured out LF. He is grooming her to work by his side much like he wanted Cat to do.The next step logical step is to overtake him.

Also, what Elba said.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Can only hope he survives or goes out in a wonderful blaze of glory.

[Kyoti]

If this was anybody but GRRM writing these books I would agree that it seems like Sansa would be Littlefingers downfall but GRRM has a way of never giving you the obvious plot twist so I'm inclined to think that it will not be Sansa who brings down Littlefinger but somebody we do not suspect. One thing I've noticed in reading the books is that Littlefinger is the one person who actually seems to respect Sansa intelligence. The way she picked up on how Littlefinger used Lyn Cordray to defeat the Lords Declarent and the way he has been teaching her how to play the game leads me to believe that he respects her as a potential player and he will be real careful not to allow her to get into a position to bring him down.

I mentioned this in another thread at more length, but LF has nothing but his wits and a piece of paper. He does not have love, or fear, or respect, and without at least one of those your power is doomed. In a lot of ways he is the polar opposite of Davos in that he is a nobody of low birth that has climbed far too high. the main difference is where Davos got to where he is by honesty and honor, LF has gotten there through deceit, manipulation, and murder. His comeuppance is nearly assured.

Also, I don't find him all that careful. Just look at his little "knowledge is power" interaction with Cercei. He didn't learn anything from that at all, it just gave him a new target. His is a house of cards, and it only takes one of those cards to turn and all of it will crash down around him.

[Bob the Fiddler]

I'm not certain who will "pull the trigger," but I think the time will come when LF realizes just how powerless he really is. Someone will also recognize it an kill him in an ignominious fashion. I think a time will arise where push comes to shove and LF will realize he has no real power. Sure he as accumlated titles by double crossing everyone, but he really has no land or armies/loyalists (excluding Kettleblacks which is like 4 dudes) because he has tried to do everything by himself (unless he is a Tyrell Loyalist and helped kill Joffrey for Margery's sake - doubtful).

He has only acted as an opportunist by attacking all the interests of all the other Great Houses. I'm not certain of his goal other than reducing their strength to the level where he might gain the Iron Throne. Or perhaps he does it simply because he can. Regardless, I don't see how he ever can "win" the game of thrones. He has numerous titles, but no land or armies. At least in KL he had the Gold Cloaks.

I understand he wishes to rule through Sansa possibly, but I don't see it happening. As other posters have noted, she is getting wise to his tricks. When she learns the full truth, the jig will be up.

I think there is a passage in AGOT that explains that Petyr is basically to smart for his own good. I wish I had the cite, but I don't right now. Eventually, that trait will play its course and he will be finished.

[ServantOnIce]

Sansa. It needs to be Sansa to bring him down somehow, and Oh - how satisfying that will be.

This, Sansa is incompetent when it comes to playing the Game of Thrones.

[Blackfish Tully]

I mentioned this in another thread at more length, but LF has nothing but his wits and a piece of paper. He does not have love, or fear, or respect, and without at least one of those your power is doomed. In a lot of ways he is the polar opposite of Davos in that he is a nobody of low birth that has climbed far too high. the main difference is where Davos got to where he is by honesty and honor, LF has gotten there through deceit, manipulation, and murder. His comeuppance is nearly assured.

Also, I don't find him all that careful. Just look at his little "knowledge is power" interaction with Cercei. He didn't learn anything from that at all, it just gave him a new target. His is a house of cards, and it only takes one of those cards to turn and all of it will crash down around him.

I do not remember the "knowledge is power" interaction with Cersie that you are referencing.

Also he is not a "nobody of low birth" he was actually born a Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and was fostered at Riverrun as a ward of the Tullys which was probably one of the most prestiges places to be fostered at.

As for him being careful he has managed to nearly destroy Westeroes with his plans and has secured for himself the ownership of Harrenhall and the Titles of Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord Protector of the Vale and nobody except for maybe Varys and Tyrion have a clue that he was involved in all the bad things that happened . Even Cersie still thinks of him as a friend and wants him to come back as Master of Coin and that says a lot because she's as paranoid as they come.

[The Chequered Raven]

I'm pretty sure he will not make it to the end of the series, but who will it be? he has taken much care that there are many candidates...

Sansa would be nice, but I always thought some silly mischance would be perfect. Something like: he wins the Iron Throne, and when ascending to sit down the very first time, stumbling over his own feet and falling right into a blade with the eye...

[Raksha the Demon]

This, Sansa is incompetent when it comes to playing the Game of Thrones.

Most 13-year-olds are not great politicians. Sansa is now well ahead of the curve, thanks to her keen observational skills, good memory for details, and the lessons that bitter experience and Littlefinger's tutelage have taught her. She's not a master player of the Game of Thrones (most adults, including her own parents, weren't/aren't either); but she does have the potential to become one. If she did not have some talent for the Game, she'd have been hurt physically and emotionally even worse during her time in King's Landing.

I'm not sure that Sansa has to become a great player of the Game to bring down Littlefinger. He's not loved or even particularly liked in the Eyrie/Vale. All Sansa has to do, once she finds out more of what he's done to her and her family (and she will), is whisper in the right ear(s), or approach the right people, and Littlefinger's own Game will unravel, undone by his most prized pawn. Post-AFFC Sansa might well be savvy enough to pick the right pawns in her own gambit, for a change.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I'm not certain who will "pull the trigger," but I think the time will come when LF realizes just how powerless he really is. Someone will also recognize it an kill him in an ignominious fashion. I think a time will arise where push comes to shove and LF will realize he has no real power. Sure he as accumlated titles by double crossing everyone, but he really has no land or armies/loyalists (excluding Kettleblacks which is like 4 dudes) because he has tried to do everything by himself (unless he is a Tyrell Loyalist and helped kill Joffrey for Margery's sake - doubtful).

He has only acted as an opportunist by attacking all the interests of all the other Great Houses. I'm not certain of his goal other than reducing their strength to the level where he might gain the Iron Throne. Or perhaps he does it simply because he can. Regardless, I don't see how he ever can "win" the game of thrones. He has numerous titles, but no land or armies. At least in KL he had the Gold Cloaks.

I understand he wishes to rule through Sansa possibly, but I don't see it happening. As other posters have noted, she is getting wise to his tricks. When she learns the full truth, the jig will be up.

I think there is a passage in AGOT that explains that Petyr is basically to smart for his own good. I wish I had the cite, but I don't right now. Eventually, that trait will play its course and he will be finished.

Is Varys similarly powerless?