Danny's hate for Starks...permanent?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

You are the one who brought up our views, not me

I commented on you saying ''Still not seeing how her view is any different than other characters saying all Freys are crap or all Lannisters are crap.''

I kinda misread ''characters'' in that sentence. But even then, we'd agree.

[drayrock]

Yes there is, the is plenty of proof that many Freys didnt support or had nothing to do woth the RW

The proof is basically that they weren't directly complicet...the same way the train guy shipping people to Austwitch didn't know EXACTLy what was happening... feighning ignorance doesn't take the blood off your hands

But yes some were not involved, my point though is that overall as a house even in robert's rebellion they came late and before that I've read things about how they are treacherous in history and not a respected house. She need only look to her past to sum them up...she doesn't even need the RW

[Tagganaro]

It'll be interesting to see, and also a good moral barometer for Dany when she finds out the truth. At this point, I'm curious because it seems as if GRRM has drawn attention to the fact that Dany refuses or is unable to learn the truth about the "murder" of Aerys.

But yes, if she finds out the truth and is all "Usurper's Dogs must die" still then we probably have a problem. I can't see it being permanent though

[Daario's*before*Snows]

There is a rich history showing the Stark's are a good prestigious noble and honorable house. The same cannot be said of the Frey's or the Lannisters. Yes a lot of their recent honorable actions she has no idea about, but if she looked briefly at some history and pretty much opened her eyes to anyone who hasn't lived under a rock they would tell her not only that the Stark's ain't half bad but also that her dad was a crackpot. It's kind of getting to the point where if she's this blind I don't even want her to sit on the iron throne.

I think the plot is setting danny up to show that she can't reach her full potential as a ruler without a man by her side to help her do somethings she just hasn't been able to get her head around. Who that man will be...not sure. Not saying this as a sexist thing but as a realistic thing, she just needs the other perspective.

But the fact is, Starks were a part of the rebellion that forced her to live like a nomadic begger for most of her life.

Do you really think if somebody mentioned a random nice Frey(yes they exist) around Arya that she would be interested in hearing what a swell guy he is? I certainly dont think so.

And where is all the Stark history in Westeros? Its jusy Jorah and Selmy. And its all based on ONE conversation.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Plus, those who are saying that all Freys and Lannisters are bad, do not know their inner thoughts or their thoughts behind their actions. Let's face it, all the Lannisters seem quite crap to people from Westeros. Tywin is a fearsome commander, Cersei is a queen who forgets the smallfolk and fucked Jaime Lannister which unleashed some war, Jaime seems an arrogant Queenfucker who doesn't care about anything, and Tyrion seems like a twisted evil demon monkey. ;)

The Freys organized the Red Wedding and they all seemed to participate, at least to the people of Westeros.

That is something different than Daenerys continuously not wanting to listen when someone actually tries to tell her something about her father and the rest of the family, and the ''usurper's dogs.'' She pretends to be the good and adult queen and stuff, so she should be able to handle the truth even when she doesn't like it. Especially in this matter.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

I bet if you ask Southerners and Westerners about Lannisters you get a different opinion than a Northerner.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I bet if you ask Southerners and Westerners about Lannisters you get a different opinion than a Northerner.

Let's ask the Martells, for example. Or the Ironborn. Or the Tyrells.

ETA:

But still, this doesn't excuse Daenerys for being that ignorant about her family and what actually happened.

[Runaway Penguin]

''It's not the time.'' And when is it time, then? She's had enough time as far as I'm concerned, and Selmy tried to bring it up a couple of times but decided not to go through with it. In those particular instances, he's a coward to me, and Daenerys is acting like a five-year old. It is past time she realized. She knows her father wasn't all good, but she doesn't realize the consequences yet.

The time is when she is ready to accept the truth. it's kinda... Like telling an addict that he's an addict ;) He will ignore you if you keep telling him that, however if he comes with "I think I have a problem..."

Dany gets close to the point, from her POV chapters.

My point is how naive can you be...EVERYONE knows. There are countless examples. And that's what I'm saying when she just writes off the stark's its like come on I'm rooting for you but your obviously just ignorant

Most people don't know, esp. in Essos. Those, who know, oare either totally blinded (Viserys) or have agenda (Ilyrio, Jorah) not to tell her. Even in Westeros a huge lot of people knows only about the murder of the lords, but then again lot of them would consider it a bit too harsh, but stilla response for Brandon Stark asking for a duel with Rhaegar in KL.

For an awful lot of people, Aery's era was a good time.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Still not seeing how her view is any different than other characters saying all Freys are crap or all Lannisters are crap.

Only evidence anybody has of Dany never ever changing her view is based on one very brief conversation.

Well Freys actually did throw a killer wedding, while Ned Stark fought against the king who would brutally murder his brother and father, i feel like there is some difference there.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

Let's ask the Martells, for example. Or the Ironborn. Or the Tyrells.

Oh Ironborn opinion is relevant? Lets ask them about the Starks then.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

Well Freys actually did throw a killer wedding, while Ned Stark fought against the king who would brutally murder his brother and father, i feel like there is some difference there.

You forget the part about Ned Stark being part of the rebellion that forced Dany to live like a nomadic beggar for most of her life, thats the part Dany has been dealing with since birth. I excuse her for not rushing to forgiveness.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Oh Ironborn opinion is relevant? Lets ask them about the Starks then.

Or the other way around, for example. But, what are you trying to say, really, because we could ask the whole Kingdom what they think about the whole Kingdom, and we would get tons of hate, but that's not relevant in this matter. What matters is, is that Daenerys is ignorant about what happened, that she doesn't want to change her precious worldview at the moment, but that she really needs to and even might in one of the next books, as I already said.

[Mladen]

That is something different than Daenerys continuously not wanting to listen when someone actually tries to tell her something about her father and the rest of the family, and the ''usurper's dogs.'' She pretends to be the good and adult queen and stuff, so she should be able to handle the truth even when she doesn't like it. Especially in this matter.

I think I can`t decide whether she deliberatly doesn`t want to hear the truth or she is plainly stubborn. Barristan told her in more than one occasion the truth, and she didn`t want to hear it. She`s behaving just like Viserys, only without those crazy parts, but wait, just give her a book or two :)

[Winter's Knight]

My point is how naive can you be...EVERYONE knows. There are countless examples. And that's what I'm saying when she just writes off the stark's its like come on I'm rooting for you but your obviously just ignorant

Everyone knows? Does Drogo? Illyrio? Daario, Rhako, Bloodriders #2 and #3, Irri, Jhiqui, XXD, the Lorax, the Green Grace, Strong Belras-anyone apart from Barry and Jorah-know about the Starks?

As far as Dany knows, Ned led the attack on KL that resulted in the deaths of her father, brother, sister-in-law and infant cousins. It's asking a lot to have her recognise the magnificence of the Starks when they are responsible for the deaths of her family and her present exile.

[drayrock]

But the fact is, Starks were a part of the rebellion that forced her to live like a nomadic begger for most of her life.

Do you really think if somebody mentioned a random nice Frey(yes they exist) around Arya that she would be interested in hearing what a swell guy he is? I certainly dont think so.

And where is all the Stark history in Westeros? Its jusy Jorah and Selmy. And its all based on ONE conversation.

The stark's are decsendants of the first men and brandon the builder. If she opened any history book about the north I'm sure she wouldn't be to hard pressed to see that they are a great, upstanding house. and I'm not saying Arya would... Arya is also like 5 years younger, jaded, and working for assassins... I don't think she's the best example.

And in any case I'm saying you cannot compare the history of house Frey and an idk 8 to 10 year old's view of that house (whose under the care of either the BOB, Sandor Clegane, or an assassins guild for the better part of the last two years) to the history of house stark and a 16 year old with smart people around her and say it's no different . It's completely different, Arya's hate isn't blind. She watched them murder her family.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

The stark's are decsendants of the first men and brandon the builder. If she opened any history book about the north I'm sure she wouldn't be to hard pressed to see that they are a great, upstanding house. and I'm not saying Arya would... Arya is also like 5 years younger, jaded, and working for assassins... I don't think she's the best example.

And in any case I'm saying you cannot compare the history of house Frey and an idk 8 to 10 year old's view of that house (whose under the care of either the BOB, Sandor Clegane, or an assassins guild for the better part of the last two years) to the history of house stark and a 16 year old with smart people around her and say it's no different . It's completely different, Arya's hate isn't blind. She watched them murder her family.

Ok substitute Arya for Jon, you think Jon is interested in hearing about all the nice Freys? He would do the same as Dany and be pissed at all Freys.

Unless they joined the NW, and hed still be suspicious.

[E-Ro]

I don't know how she will react, but when she learns the truth if she still feels the same way then I can comfortably say there will be no hope for her. This would indicate(to me at least) that she is in fact a villain, an antagonist to be hated.

[Winter's Knight]

I don't know how she will react, but when she learns the truth if she still feels the same way then I can comfortably say there will be no hope for her. This would indicate(to me at least) that she is in fact a villain, an antagonist to be hated.

Your new avatar and title are totes adorable.

[drayrock]

Everyone knows? Does Drogo? Illyrio? Daario, Rhako, Bloodriders #2 and #3, Irri, Jhiqui, XXD, the Lorax, the Green Grace, Strong Belras-anyone apart from Barry and Jorah-know about the Starks?

As far as Dany knows, Ned led the attack on KL that resulted in the deaths of her father, brother, sister-in-law and infant cousins. It's asking a lot to have her recognise the magnificence of the Starks when they are responsible for the deaths of her family and her present exile.

No crap she wouldn't ask those people...I'm saying everyone whose anyone from Kings Landing agrees that Areys was mad by this point. Even the dornish who were his bannerman. They all admit that the guy went crazy. Danny knows who to ask and refuses to listen to one of the most trustworthy respected swords swords in westeroes. And yes even the people who had it good during Aerys admit that he was crazy...look at Jon cunn. He admitted and said that even Rhaegar knew...

[Ser Ennepe]

…a 16 year old with smart people around her and say it's no different . I

I kind of doubt the "smart" part ;) One of her advisor advised her to pull a RW on the Meereenese (thank gods she didn´t agreed with him) and another is an Ex pitfighter Eunuch. the only competent one is Barristan and she kind of refuses to listen to him ;)