Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Michael Jon Snow

Grand Tyrell Conspiracy Theory

378 posts in this topic

The compromise I've heard as to Loras's injuries is that they were overstated. In the heart of the fighting, Loras would have other's blood all over him, making it difficult to tell on the field just how injured he is.

It is interesting that Margaery sent her own Maester to care for Loras. While it certainly isn't proof of anything, it would allow for the Tyrells to control what is known about Loras' condition.

as for Dragonstone: we have the Master Pyromancer asking about any dragon eggs that may be discovered in the ruins. Unless the Tyrells were ready to act quickly, i doubt that they would have been able to uphold such a large scale deception.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:thumbsup: Makes sense to me! Very well analyzed with lots of detail.

I too didn't notice that Waters had been talking to Elinor at the wedding. Good catch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with your theory on the large scale, and since its a theory i wont dispute minor points with you.

All i want to ask is why would Cersei choose to have Loras defend her? Admitedly he is probalby the best fighter in teh Kingsguard, but he is still a Tyrell. The paranoid mind of Cersei would never let her entrust her life to someone from a family whom she suspects of having it in for her . . . (and yes I do realize that Loras would be putting his life on the line, but these things can always be negotiated)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The compromise I've heard as to Loras's injuries is that they were overstated. In the heart of the fighting, Loras would have other's blood all over him, making it difficult to tell on the field just how injured he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that were true, why would the Tyrells lie about the boiling oil then? It's a lot harder to pretend that Loras was grieviously burned than it is for them to pretend that he was wounded by arrows and swords to the point of severe injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since your original post is quite large, I decided to break up my criticisms into parts.

Lets proceed chronologically. Prior to Tywins death, the Tyrells were working with Tywin to help improve the Tyrell position by including the Tyrells in the small Council... When Mace approached Cersei after the funeral, (pg106) she is extremely rude to him and immediately dis-invites Garth the Gross. Olena immediately realizes that Cersei is attempting to cut the Tyrells out of power. She disengages Mace and I think that this is where she decides that she needs to eliminate Cersei if the Tyrells are to have a share of the power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is a brilliant theory, except for Olenna hiding nearby, like Littlefinger, she's removing herself from the scene of Joffrey's death as soon as she can.

I've thought since reading AFFC that the attack on Dragonstone never happened. it'll be interesting to see just how unreliable all that testimony was. if all the forces from the attack were sent directly to attack the iron fleet.

I think the loras bit at least is terribly suspect because of all the points mjs raised.

There is a very good reason for Cersei's removal after the second or third Cersei chapter. She won't let Tommen and Margarey consummate (or even appear to consummate by staying in the same bed) which is a threat to Margarey's claim and she's opening the realm to a possible foreign war with her policies regarding the Iron Bank et al. And another motive is Tywin's loss and Cersei clearly cutting the Tyrell's out of power because of her own paranoia. Given how Cersei helped shape Joffrey's personality the Tyrell's may not be willing to risk letting Tommen be overly influenced by her and losing any oppurtunity to influence him themselves. 6 years is quite far away and at the rate Cersei is running the kingdom into the ground, nothing much at all may last until then.

I do like the suggestion that Taena is a double littlefinger/tyrell agent, though where her loyalties truly lie is a question.

But I think the Tyrell's have no idea about FrankenGregor, which is Cersei's trump card that will surprise and spoil everything they've hoped for.

Adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attack on Ds did happen. Pretty boy Loras is now extra crispy. HAHA

Cmon people its so Martin. The pretty boy now ugly is almost as cruel as Catelyn not being able to speak at the end of ASOS. I mean q woman not being able to talk? How cruel is this author. ERGO Loras is burnt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This theory was suggested about 5-6 times at this forum.

Only new element is that Kevan is involved. And it is highly doubtful, because it would mean Sercei was right about Kevan being connected to Tyrrels. And everybody knows the queen is never right.

As for the rest, there is one grand weak point: Tyrrels would never ever allow Margaery to be arrested. It's too dangerous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great exposition of a theory I also agree with. I would only add emphasis to the probable role of Littlefinger, who has been in with the Tyrells since he went to negotiate Margaery's marriage to Joffery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, Varys, earlier, tries to warn Ned in his usual Varys way .... If Ned had ever listened, Varys did try to tell him so many things ... sigh

Eddard:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Ned did really have a proclivity for shatting himself didn't he? 1st he brought far to few knights (vows or no) and guardsmen to court : he already didn't like Cersi Lannister he should have summoned Bolton, Umber, Manderly sword to supplement the Winterfell contingent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think he could have brought an overly large party without it being seen as either a slight to the king, or a threat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This theory is great, but I don't believe it.

The High Sparrow situation has been building up ever since AGoT when the Mountain attacked the Riverlands. The smallfolk were screwed by their lords and king(s), and lacking the concept of democracy they turned to the faith to help the down & low. This, in the fourth book of strife and suffering resulted in a spiritual leader who is truly fanatical, righteous and shrewd enough to screw the great lords right back. Some believe the new High Septon is Varys and/or (like in this theory) some puppet for the Tyrels.

I think there is evidence enough that this High Septon has no motivation for his actions if he seeks to gain favour or power from the nobility of Westeros, be it Queen Danearys or Queen of Thorns. His ascetic way of life and history would make it impossible to do anything out-of-character, otherwise he would get devoured by his own followers. Therefore it makes no sense that he acts on behalf of anybody but Faith himself.

By the way, I love the scene when Cersei first comes to visit him. She is firsts told that she can't take her kingsguard along, because swords are not allowed in the Sept of Baelor (suddenly), and later inside she sees a flock of hedge knights with their swords in a pile infront of the Warrior. That would definetly have triggered my alarm-clock, but Cersei just notices and finds nothing to be out of place. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damn maybe u should get that post published u out-did GRRM there!

But seriously I was too lazy to read the whole thing...can you abridge it a tad so I can get what youre trying to say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you've got yourself a good theory..

I think it's interesting how every time Cercie invites Taena son to come to king's landing to be with Tommen ,Taena makes excuses or changes the subject.

As for Margery been arrest just to get Cercie..

Oh , that would be risky for her..

I think maybe that part of thier sceame was some how messed up,and didn't expect it at all..

Rememeber Margery was in bad shape..Cold, with rags on..Crying..

Come on -that couldn't of been an act. Unless the Tyrell's plotted that situation without her knowlage..that's just cruel..But could happen.. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since your original post is quite large...

Artanaro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think that they initially knew what was going to happen. I think they took steps to ensure the outcome they wanted, took advantage of the situation that arose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites