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Michael Jon Snow

Grand Tyrell Conspiracy Theory

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Felice,

Thanks for your support and for dealing with Anathema. You have handled all of his questions well.

Jaxom

While I don’t doubt that LF & the Tyrells have common motivation and are allies, the events in Kings Landing happen to fast for LF to be directly involved. He says himself that he was surprised by how quickly things around Cersei fell apart. I don’t think he was involved in any of the plotting in KL in AFFC. As I explained in the long post, I don’t think that the plot was all planned out from the beginning. Most of the details developed long after LF was long gone.

It will be interesting when LF & the Tyrells come together again to see if their alliance was deeper than a passing convenience.

Oh and I think Anathema has certainly demonstrated that he reads everything literally. He would probably argue that Marge’s hymen is broken because a Septa said so.

Antanaro

I am sorry for being a little snippy with you earlier. You are one of the few antagonists to this theory who have taken the time to really put thought into it, and it was rude of me to snipe at you. Again, my apologies.

Let me start out by saying that your assessment of Loras is fairly correct, so I will skip down to where I disagree with you.

Now, let's run these points through your take on Loras in the Grand Tyrell Conspiracy Theory, skipping to the crux of the matter.

First let me go through the bad logic here. Lord Redwyne is a bannerman to the Tyrells. There's no reason for Loras to need to take command of the navy if it's simply going to fight the iron born afterwards. Redwyne can carry out orders as well as him.

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Oh and I think Anathema has certainly demonstrated that he reads everything literally.

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Anathema, I think you have proven my point. A broken hymen doesn't prove anything. With Osney's confession recanted, there is no proof to keep holding Marge. So why hasn't she been released? If Marge's hymen is broken why torture Osney? It is the motivation of the High Septon that doesn't make sense in the story as Cersei believes it happened.

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No, I haven't.

If Margaery's hymen is broken, it could mean that it is broken because of horseback riding.

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1) Marge⦣8364;™s hymen is intact.(This is I believe happened.) Obviously Osney is a liar. Why would he accuse Marge of this if it isn⦣8364;™t true. This would give the High Septon a reason to torture Osney to find out who is behind this lie. Marge, afraid (knowing) that there is some plot afoot, seeks the protection of the Sept and hides out with her sisters, presumable under arrest, but more like protective custody. Once the truth comes out that Cersei is behind the lies against Marge, Marge and the High Septon plan a trap for Cersei. Marge offers to pretend to be a captive and, well the rest is history.

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With Osney recanted and because everyone knows that a broken hymen proves nothing, there is no reason to hold Marge.

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OK I think I start to understand. You have the facts all fucked up.

Yes, there are reasons to continue to hold Margaery from the High Septon's point of view. The High Septon has been torturing the Blue Bard, who continues to insist that he fucked Margaery.

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Thanks for your support and for dealing with Anathema. You have handled all of his questions well.

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That's what Cersei believes, yes. There's little evidence that she's right. The only actual information he supplies is a couple of reports from the Great Sept

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This theory sound fascinating but I think that

a) Loras is burned for sure, maybe not badly but enough not to be so pretty, JRRM loves disfiguring his characters.

B) Margaery's maidenhead is most certainly broken, probably thru horseback riding.

c) High Septon sounds like a true zealot and those religious fanatics don't lie that easily. I believe that he might not be telling the whole story but whatever he is saying is true or at least he believes it to be true

d) Not sure about that Moontea though, I mean the Maester (Whatshisname) is true to Lannisters not Tyrrells. I mean he betrayed Tyrion to Cersei, so why would he lie about Maergery?

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Not all of that information is of grand importance, but it certainly points to Qyburn having a network of whisperers as he claims, and as Cersei believes.

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Cersei gives no sign of distrusting him, and plenty of signs of being reckless, making foolish assumptions, and trusting foolishly. The king and the regent do know, but the king is a young boy who has no idea what he's signing, and the regent is a nutcase who simply assumes that Aurane will write out the orders she asks him to. I don't see Cersei writing out Loras's authorisation herself; just telling her Grand Admiral to sort it out seems entirely in character.

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If her maidenhead is intact, it's not dangerous at all. Instant proof that the accusations are a lie.

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That's mostly just collecting the rumours going around the bars, and news of events happening in public within Kings Landing. A completely different kettle of fish from uncovering secret plots. Qyburn isn't in the same league as Varys.

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As to the question of: "Why would the HS have Osney whipped?": You obviously know NOTHING about the medieval confessions and the consequences of such, right? Being whipped is not equal with "being tortured for information". It might simply be a punishment for a sin. Like the sin of sleeping with the queen, perhaps? Not to mention the fact that the HS had the impression that Osney was lying.

"Why would anyone confess sins if they knew they would get tortured for it?" Well, guess what: In order to achieve forgiveness and ensure an reward in the next live? Catholic priests in the middle ages often punished their confessors quite severe, and still those poor souls kept on confessing their sins. You know, we are talking religion here, not bartering for a good deal. Why would ANYONE confess sins, btw, as such confession makes someone look ... well... sinful? :D

I will not get into the flaming discussion about this whole conspiracy-matter, just one thing: IF Loras brought "royal orders" to Lord Redwine, WHY would he question them? WHY would he seek confimation, even if they might have been somewhat less than perfect?

Lord Redwine is not primarily a royal subject, he is first and foremost a Tyrell bannerman. Yes, exactly, the same Tyrells who happen to have a son of their lord with the name of Loras. If the son of your liege-lord, who also happens to be a KG-Knight, brings orders to you, you should not call him a liar to his face by questioning them. Not even mentioning that Lord Redwine would be very HAPPY about those orders, since they would send him home to defend his own lands. Which might, mind you, mean A LITTLE BIT more to him than this damned piece of rock named Dragonstone.

So, IF there was a conspiracy faking the fall of Dragonstone etc. in order to move the Redwyne fleet south, Lord Redwyne would - knowingly or unknowingly - cooperate gladly and without hesitation IMHO.

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So, IF there was a conspiracy faking the fall of Dragonstone etc. in order to move the Redwyne fleet south, Lord Redwyne would - knowingly or unknowingly - cooperate gladly and without hesitation IMHO.

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As to Lord Redwyne cooperatingly knowingly and without hesistation against the Iron Throne -- just to say, he also never declared for Renly in ACoK, because Cersei held his sons in the Red Keep, and he feared what she would do to them. Horas and Hobber Redwyne both remain guests of the Iron Throne during AFFC.

Now, the situations are quite different -- the Arbor is directly under attack by the Ironborn -- so I'm hardly saying Lord Redwyne would make the same decision again either. But I thought it was worth mentioning, anyway.

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