Grand Tyrell Conspiracy Theory

[Sarella Snow]

you've got yourself a good theory..

I think it's interesting how every time Cercie invites Taena son to come to king's landing to be with Tommen ,Taena makes excuses or changes the subject.

As for Margery been arrest just to get Cercie..

Oh , that would be risky for her..

I think maybe that part of thier sceame was some how messed up,and didn't expect it at all..

Rememeber Margery was in bad shape..Cold, with rags on..Crying..

Come on -that couldn't of been an act. Unless the Tyrell's plotted that situation without her knowlage..that's just cruel..But could happen.. :unsure:

[Anathematizer]

and having Tommen "guarded" on his wedding night. This is a blatent effort to ensure the marriage was never consumated and obvious preparation for a future annulment. They would have had to be deaf, blind and terminally stupid not to see it.

[wvlr]

Heh, umm, Tommen is 8-years-old. It's quite impossible for him to consummate the marriage.

“Husband and wife should sleep together,†the Queen of Thorns had said, “even if they do no more than sleep. His Grace’s bed is big enough for two, surely.â€

Not even the Tyrells thought it was possible for Tommen to consummate the marriage on his wedding night (I trust you know what that means) -- everyone knows that he won't be old enough for years. =)

[Anathematizer]

What! A significant number of boys and sometimes girls begin masturbating at this age and earlier, as well as playing "doctor" when left unsupervised.

[wvlr]

Quote:

***

* Jaime sighed. “Then let them wed. It will be years before Tommen is old enough to consummate the marriage. And until he does, the union can always be set aside. Give Tyrell his wedding and send him off to play at war.â€

* “To see what ?†he said. “There can be no danger of a consummation. Tommen is much too young.â€

* “Let the children warm each other in the night. It will bring them closer. Margaery oft shares her blankets with her cousins. They sing and play games and whisper secrets to each other when the candles are snuffed out.â€*

***

Yes, I got a good laugh out of those lines coming from Jamie to Cersei in light of the two of them being caught at about the same age by their mother.

I though it was very humerous at the time, but had forgotten. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Now I have to go re-read those passages to see exactly how much they apply. That was in SoS wasn't it? or was that in CoK?

[Anathematizer]

Yes, I got a good laugh out of those lines coming from Jamie to Cersei in light of the two of them being caught at about the same age by their mother.

[urizen]

"The part about Taena's son didn't pass the smell test for me either. I mean both his parents are in King's Landing and Tommen is around his age, and yet she keeps coming up with lame excuses for leaving him (safe) at home."

Therea are several "legit" reasons as to why Teana don't want Russel at court..

Maybe Teana doesn't really care about Russel. Sure that's not what she told Cersei but it doesn't take a rocketscientist to realize that Teana is trying to get on Cersei's good side and since Cersei cares about her family you of course portray yourself as a family person. Perhaps Teana keeps Russel away because he would cramp her style? With Russel in Kings Landing she has to care for him and that would take time away from sleeping with Cersei.

Even if Teana, like Cersei thinks, is only with her for her own advancement, it's not inconcivable that Teana don't want to risk her only child around a paranoid Psychopath like Cersei. Suppose Russel takes after his pease-porridge for brain dad and upsets Cersei somehow, not that unlikely considering Cersei's temper. Poor Russel would be a surefire goner in that case.

[wvlr]

Quote:

***“Long before his sister’s flowering or the advent of his own manhood, they had seen mares and stallions in the fields and dogs and bitches in the kennels and played at doing the same. Once their mother’s maid had caught them at it… he did not recall just what they had been doing, but whatever it was had horrified Lady Joanna. She’d sent the maid away, moved Jaime’s bedchamber to the other side of Casterly Rock, set a guard outside Cersei’s, and told them that they must never do that again or she would have no choice but to tell their lord father. "***

The words “Long before†in this sentence mean that this behavior went on for a long time. It was not just a single occurrence.

“sister’s flowering†means Cersei’s first period.

“his own manhood†must mean his first actual orgasm.

It is not necessary for a male to have an orgasm in order to perform the “actâ€; it is merely necessary for a male to have an erection. I have personally seen erections occurring from boys much younger than five years old. And have personally had to call down children from playing “doctor†and “slap the flag pole†as young as four and five years old. Children if left un-monitored DO get up to mischief. I do not need a reference for this – I have seen it and know it for fact.

Now what does “they had seen mares and stallions in the fields and dogs and bitches in the kennels and played at doing the same†mean.

Well let’s see what horses do:

Eat grass.

Run.

Nay.

Nuzzle each other.

Shit.

Have sex.

Well let’s see what dogs do:

Eat dog food.

Bark.

Run.

Sniff each others butt.

Shit.

Have sex.

Only one of these things above could I see as being justification for: “whatever it was had horrified Lady Joanna. She’d sent the maid away, moved Jaime’s bedchamber to the other side of Casterly Rock, set a guard outside.â€

An added note: I find the last part of this quote:

***It was not long after that she died birthing Tyrion.***

Especially interesting. In light of finding out that she killed her childhood friend in aFfC, it adds to the possibility that Cersei took revenge on her mother for separating them - possibaly giving her som poison that caused Tyrion's deformaty. I am not saying it is true, but aFfC does add to the possibility.

[Anathematizer]

Children if left un-monitored DO get up to mischief.

[Daemrion]

***It was not long after that she died birthing Tyrion.***

Especially interesting. In light of finding out that she killed her childhood friend in aFfC, it adds to the possibility that Cersei took revenge on her mother for separating them - possibaly giving her som poison that caused Tyrion's deformaty. I am not saying it is true, but aFfC does add to the possibility.

[corbaekin]

I'm from NYC-there are statistics on elementary school pregnancy and sex. It happens.

Also, even if Tommen so much as pushed in (and she could play it up as a game, remember), the marriage would have been considered to be consumnated and could not be set aside.

Also...just the fact of having guards at a wedding night suggests the Tyrells will be set aside.

[Anathematizer]

I'm from NYC-there are statistics on elementary school pregnancy and sex. It happens.

[wvlr]

Quote:

***Cersei did plenty of stupid things to antagonize the Tyrells during AFFC, but having Tommen guarded isn't one of them.***

If taken alone, you are correct. However, you can't take this action alone. You must take into account everything else she was doing at the same time to push the Tyrells out. It is the total of her actions that creates the assertion that the Tyrells would have been "deaf, blind and terminally stupid" to have missed it.

[corbaekin]

The thing is, again. Tommen would not have to complete the act to 'satisfaction' or orgasm for the consumnation to be legally binding.

All that would have to happen would be for Tommen to have an erection, that penetrated Margaery. That's /it/. As a mother who oversees a large playgroup, I can tell you that even very young boys get erections regularly-and anyone who's had kids can tell you that they start playing with themselves to figure out what's going on at a very young age. Margaery could presumably have been coached on a multitude of ways to do it.

Edited to add:

Although, it would have been fucked up, yes, it also would have guaranteed the Tyrell's place. Mind, I don't think they were /trying/ to consumnate there, but the mere fact that Cersei /insisted on a guard/ shows that Cersei did not trust the Tyrells, and was not willing to allow them even a chance at equality.

[wvlr]

The thing is, again. Tommen would not have to complete the act to 'satisfaction' or orgasm for the consumnation to be legally binding.

All that would have to happen would be for Tommen to have an erection, that penetrated Margaery. That's /it/. As a mother who oversees a large playgroup, I can tell you that even very young boys get erections regularly-and anyone who's had kids can tell you that they start playing with themselves to figure out what's going on at a very young age. Margaery could presumably have been coached on a multitude of ways to do it.

Edited to add:

Although, it would have been fucked up, yes, it also would have guaranteed the Tyrell's place. Mind, I don't think they were /trying/ to consumnate there, but the mere fact that Cersei /insisted on a guard/ shows that Cersei did not trust the Tyrells, and was not willing to allow them even a chance at equality.

[Anathematizer]

However, you can't take this action alone. You must take into account everything else she was doing at the same time to push the Tyrells out.

[corbaekin]

This is absurd. You cannot possibly be equating for a young kid playing with themselves to be a comparable act to full-blown vaginal sex for an 8-year-old with a female over twice his age.

[Anathematizer]

What I am saying, forgive me if I am being crass here, is that it is conceivable, that had Margaery wanted/been instructed to , she could have gotten Tommen to at least begin the act so that there was minor penetration, for five seconds, before letting go, and telling Tommen very seriously that this meant they were really truly married and not to tell Cersei, but remember for later.

[wvlr]

Anathematizer

Quote:

***The quote that I responded to said: Also...just the fact of having guards at a wedding night suggests the Tyrells will be set aside.***

The ORIGINAL actual statement went like this:

***The rejection of every Tyrell applicant to KL and having Tommen "guarded" on his wedding night. This is a blatent effort to ensure the marriage was never consumated and obvious preparation for a future annulment. They would have had to be deaf, blind and terminally stupid not to see it.***

This seems to be what I have consistently said all along, you keep trying to separate it and take it out of context. If you do that, yes it will give it different meaning, but that is not the meaning that I intended in the original post or in my most recent post which basically says the same thing. I really do think it is quite clear and consistent. If any of MY posts in between that first post and my last post I inadvertently encouraged said misconception, I apologize.

[Anathematizer]

The ORIGINAL actual statement went like this: