Dany ,the Dragonlord,and the Dragonbond

[wolfmaid7]

Honestly, I never considered that. I've been wondering how Dany can control 3 dragons. If she were a warg...problem solved!

Dany is not going to or nor can she control three dragons. Did you read the OP? One rider one Dragon. Her bond is only with Drogon .

[wolfmaid7]

The question I wanted to ask re dragons and warging:

As the dragons are "fire made flesh", would warging them make the warg go insane, similar to Varamyr in Orell's burning eagle? I.e. is it possible at all to warg a dragon due to their extreme temperatures?

This is why i believe a Dragon can never be Warged in this case have a Dragonlord bond with anybody unless they past the test of "Fire and Blood":

Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temperd her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce"(AGOT,Dany).

I think much like the Direwolf & Stark relationship the Familars in this case ( Dragon and Direwolf) chooses.Dany hears a Dragonsong from the Dragon and then accepts.She is then bombarded with flames that does not hurt her.

I think your thinking is right and -it may be a fail-safe by the Dragons in some regards- I have a feeling based on evidence of the text and what Dany went through that if a Warg tries to attempt a bond its not that the Dragon might go insane,i think the person who tried to force the bond would be cooked ( Might go through what V,sixskins did).

Somehow i think the Horns are intended to get by the Dragonsong.

[CanadianWolvie]

I think you are on to something that is sown through out the books as well with this "Would someone trying to form a bond with a creature of fire and blood go insane?"

Why yes, I do think the books support that.

What is that saying about the Targs in the books? That the Gods either make the Targs great or mad, like the Gods flip a coin at birth IIRC.

Look at what happened with many a Targ obsessed with trying to get a dragon.

Good chance that the madness that some Targs experience is due to having a dragon egg in their cribs, then the dragon song of blood and fire ... well, they probably didn't come out of it feeling new, strong, or fierce like Dany did.

[wolfmaid7]

Morroqo: ‘I am Dragonbinder,’ it says. Have you ever heard it sound?”

Victarion: “The sound it made … it burned,

somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot,then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.”

See how the effects of the horn mirrors what Dany underwent when she herself heard Drogon sing.Except she was un-harm.

Morroqo: “And the man who blew the horn, what of him?”

“He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron’s gifts are always poisoned.

Vic: “The Crow’s Eye swore this horn would bind dragons to my will. But how will that serve me if the price is death?”

Mor: “Your brother did not sound the horn himself. Nor must you.” Moqorro pointed to the band of steel. “Here. ‘Blood for fire, fire for blood.’ Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come to the horn’s master. You must claim the horn. With blood.”( ADWD,Victarion).

@ Canadianwolfie:

First to your question,it may be very well that the "Dragonsong" turns some Targs mad they can't fully undergo successfully the transformation that Dany did so they go insane.

Now i want to point out something with the horn; i think it is supposed to transform the master of the horn into a Dragonlord. After Drogon was singing to Dany the flames didn't burn her she embraced it and was cleansed.

But the sound that Vic and the others heard burnt from the inside out. Lucky for Euron his slave took upon him the death that was sure to come to him but Euron will not be a fDragonlord because he didn't have blood.

Thanks to Moro,Vic now know what he needs to make the transformation( The horn plus Targ blood).

[evita mgfs]

:bowdown: :bowdown: WOLFMAID 7 AND CANADIANWOLVIE: Great analysis! You should post the "blood" motif in a thread I just started. I am covering the direwolves and the Stark relationships - as well as other ideas - all tracing Martin's blood motif. We have been looking at the Starks and the symbolic and literal associations with blood, etc. Your awesome scholarship is always welcome! Wolfmaid: I made a thread about the "wind". I wanted to see if anyone else thought it was significant!

[wolfmaid7]

:bowdown: :bowdown: WOLFMAID 7 AND CANADIANWOLVIE: Great analysis! You should post the "blood" motif in a thread I just started. I am covering the direwolves and the Stark relationships - as well as other ideas - all tracing Martin's blood motif. We have been looking at the Starks and the symbolic and literal associations with blood, etc. Your awesome scholarship is always welcome! Wolfmaid: I made a thread about the "wind". I wanted to see if anyone else thought it was significant!

Is the thread on the General forum? I would love to take a read . We will see these elements play pivotal role

[Elessar]

Didn't read thread, just answering OP. No. The answer is no.

[wolfmaid7]

Didn't read thread, just answering OP. No. The answer is no.

If you didn't read the thread then you didn't read the mountain of proof. Therefore you have nothing of value to offer. I say this with respect if you have nothing of substance to offer , please don't waste our time.

[Elessar]

I'm sorry but if by a "mountain of proof" you mean the typical crackpottery that goes on here then I can do without it and just give my answer to the original question. No.

[wolfmaid7]

I'm sorry but if by a "mountain of proof" you mean the typical crackpottery that goes on here then I can do without it and just give my answer to the original question. No.

Then bye bye the whole point is to give our ideas and theories and to discuss it using proof from the text etc. There are pretty good and solid evidence to support said theory. If you DID NOT read the OP then why contribute your doing the OP and those who took the time to read the OP a disservice. You are welcomed to READ the OP then offer proof as to why or why not.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

She does not have the blood of the First Men.

[wolfmaid7]

She does not have the blood of the First Men.

Please do the OP a favor by actually reading if you are going by the name of the thread alone and decide that is it , then what's the point. No she does not have the blood of the FM but the FM do not have the patent on no bonding with magical creatures. Read the OP

[IRON BANK]

M

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:00 AM

ZeeAppoponaxComes, on 07 August 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Iron bank, I read the story analysis of the story on Tor.com. Hang on. Ill get the link. http://www.tor.com/b...-and-the-greens

http://asoiaf.wester...er/page__st__20

Beyond all these little bits of Westerosi history repeating, we also get our first real glimpse of dragon-centric warfare, along with the problem of finding able riders. Since dragons will only accept and bond with riders of Targaryen blood, the story chronicles the search for bastard-born “dragonseeds” to join the fray (with mixed results)—a subplot which clearly holds some potential relevance for Daenerys and her trio of dragons as events continue to unfold in the novels

Your right on the money Targs do have to bond with thier dragons, if they are latent wargs that may prove interesting

Edited by IRON BANK, 11 August 2013 - 02:21 AM.

• Back to top
  

[wolfmaid7]

M

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:00 AM

ZeeAppoponaxComes, on 07 August 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Iron bank, I read the story analysis of the story on Tor.com. Hang on. Ill get the link. http://www.tor.com/b...-and-the-greens

http://asoiaf.wester...er/page__st__20

Beyond all these little bits of Westerosi history repeating, we also get our first real glimpse of dragon-centric warfare, along with the problem of finding able riders. Since dragons will only accept and bond with riders of Targaryen blood, the story chronicles the search for bastard-born “dragonseeds” to join the fray (with mixed results)—a subplot which clearly holds some potential relevance for Daenerys and her trio of dragons as events continue to unfold in the novels

Your right on the money Targs do have to bond with thier dragons, if they are latent wargs that may prove interesting

Edited by IRON BANK, 11 August 2013 - 02:21 AM.

• Back to top
  

Thanks Iron Bank for posting that link,it was very interesting and expressed the significance of Targ genealogy and how the infighting drastically affected the family and its ability to hatch and bond with Dragons.

It is clear that there is something about the Targ family much like the Starks that set them apart and i believe it is hidden in their many assertions of having "Wolfblood" and "the blood of the Dragon".

[Elessar]

You're clinging too tightly to this ridiculous idea. I read most of this thread and at best it's grasping.

[wolfmaid7]

You're clinging too tightly to this ridiculous idea. I read most of this thread and at best it's grasping.

Then please do the rest of us a favor and don't post if you have nothing to contribute else i will have to report you to the mod.You haven't read the OP and you've offered nothing beside ...well you've offered nothing;so please you are free to read other threads and offer your opinions there.

[evita mgfs]

WOLFMAID7: EXCELLENT WORK! Ignore the haters. This is my advice: do not acknowledge posts that are detractors and designed to engage the op into a disagreement that may grow heated and hurtful.

DEALING WITH DISAGREEMENT

I have found, here and in my 30+ years in front of the classroom, remarks such as above are made to enflame the OP who is passionate about a topic, especially a topic that has textual evidence to give it credence. Sometimes, I find, the best way to deal with a situation like above, IGNORE. What the poster seeks is ATTENTION. Depriving a poster who unapologetically disagrees with you of the very thing he or she desires – an answer – you win! People despise being ignored, overlooked, unappreciated.

I say that from experience: I earned a warning point by being drawn into an argument in which I defended my favorite character quite passionately.

****You give off positive energy. Do not let anyone suck that out of you!

DANY THE DRAGON WHISPERER

The BIGGEST evidence of Dany’s “intuitive” link with her dragons happens in AGoT when her dragons communicate with her, and Dany takes a different egg to bed with her nightly. This intuitive force also guides Dany to warm the eggs in the fire.

I will post evidence from my reread notes as soon as I find them.

A MATTER OF SEMANTICS

A “WARG” IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A HOST BODY AND A WOLF. Warg is the wrong word because DANY IS AN INTUITVE with her silver and with the dragon eggs. I think that Dany and her eggs/dragons have a secret language they share telepathically; however, Dany needs to practice daily – and she abandons her dragons in ADwD. Regardless, Dany still has the “gift” – when someone has a powerful relationship with a horse, he or she is called a ‘HORSE WHISPERER”. I THINK DANY IS A DRAGON WHISPERER.

[wolfmaid7]

WOLFMAID7: EXCELLENT WORK! Ignore the haters. This is my advice: do not acknowledge posts that are detractors and designed to engage the op into a disagreement that may grow heated and hurtful.

DEALING WITH DISAGREEMENT

I have found, here and in my 30+ years in front of the classroom, remarks such as above are made to enflame the OP who is passionate about a topic, especially a topic that has textual evidence to give it credence. Sometimes, I find, the best way to deal with a situation like above, IGNORE. What the poster seeks is ATTENTION. Depriving a poster who unapologetically disagrees with you of the very thing he or she desires – an answer – you win! People despise being ignored, overlooked, unappreciated.

I say that from experience: I earned a warning point by being drawn into an argument in which I defended my favorite character quite passionately.

****You give off positive energy. Do not let anyone suck that out of you!

DANY THE DRAGON WHISPERER

The BIGGEST evidence of Dany’s “intuitive” link with her dragons happens in AGoT when her dragons communicate with her, and Dany takes a different egg to bed with her nightly. This intuitive force also guides Dany to warm the eggs in the fire.

I will post evidence from my reread notes as soon as I find them.

A MATTER OF SEMANTICS

A “WARG” IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A HOST BODY AND A WOLF. Warg is the wrong word because DANY IS AN INTUITVE with her silver and with the dragon eggs. I think that Dany and her eggs/dragons have a secret language they share telepathically; however, Dany needs to practice daily – and she abandons her dragons in ADwD. Regardless, Dany still has the “gift” – when someone has a powerful relationship with a horse, he or she is called a ‘HORSE WHISPERER”. I THINK DANY IS A DRAGON WHISPERER.

Thanks Evita you are right and i opted to ignore the nonsense,i agree with you when it comes to Dany's intuitiveness. Textually Dany and Jon have both exhibited this when it came to horses so i want to say it is something about them that horses sense to the point of both displaying calmness.

Dragon whisperer is a cool name i think it is a quality of a Dragonlord that enables them to understand "Dragonsong".I am wondering with respect to Rheagal and Viserion that they too probably sang their songs but maybe their riders didn't realize it was a summons or their riders aren't alive to hear.

[evita mgfs]

FOR WOLFMAID7: FROM AGOT: DANY'S POV / CHAPTER 24 / The descent was steep and rocky, but Dany rode fearlessly, and the joy and the danger of it were a song in her heart. All her life Viserys had told her she was a princess, but not until she rode her silver had Daenerys Targaryen ever felt like one.

• Khaleesi rides fearlessly, enjoying the danger with a “song in her heart”. The song indicates contentment and pleasure, and the word “song” appears in the title of the series “A Song of Ice and Fire”.
  
• Daenerys finally feels like a princess, a transformation she attributes to riding her silver.
  
• Later, Khaleesi narrates her recollection of an inspiring dragon dream, and the dragon sings to her.
  

At first it had not come easy.

• Compelled by her evil brother Viserys to marry Khal Drogo, Daenerys suffers in the demands placed upon her in her new life with a strange husband and an even stranger people and culture. Her body is riddled with sores and blisters from riding horseback day in and day out, and she cries herself to sleep nightly. She has no relationship with Drogo during the day, even forced to dine alone or with her slaves or her brother and Ser Jorah. Drogo comes to her near morning to ride her like a wild stallion, which leaves her aching and bruised and too exhausted to sleep.
  

Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night . . .

• Just when Daenerys commits to killing herself, she has a dream that turns her entire life around.
  

DANY’S DRAGON DREAM

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her, She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

• This dream foreshadows the conflagration in Daenerys’ final POV.
  
• Viserys’ absence from this dream also hints at future events.
  
• The description of the dragon parallels the colors of one of her dragon eggs and the colors of one of her dragons.
  
• Scarlet and black are connected to her brother Rhaegar’s black armor, his breast-plate encrusted with rubies.
  
• Daenerys’ blood on the dragon MAY be the blood that results from a live birth of a child since Daenerys will symbolically be the mother of dragons. Her blood on the dragon MAY also represent a transference of her “pain” onto the dragon who seems to heal her physically and mentally by assuming this pain.
  
• Martin reinforces the water imagery in its eyes of “pools” of magma and in this baptism by fire: a “jet” of fire “cleanses” and “scours” her and her blood “boils” and turns to “steam”.
  
• Martin personifies the dragon fire that “swallows” Daenerys, and she opens her arms to embrace it as if it is a lover or a long lost friend or family member.
  
• The dragon fire symbolically “burns” away the “old” Daenerys as she seemingly molts like a snake or a bird, her skin sloughing away to expose her new and improved self: now fiercer and stronger.
  
• In her dragon dream, the “dragon” awakens inside her, so in Daenerys she achieves the very thing that her brother Viserys threatens will happen to him when he temper is aroused – “do you want to wake the dragon?” Daenerys’ inner dragon wakes just as Viserys’ boast of a waking dragon fizzles.
  
• Daenerys’s dream MAY also be a subconsciously inspired vision, a product of her coping mechanisms, and the dragon and his fire are manifestations of her hope for a better future. I liken this to Dany being served “lemons” from which she makes “lemonade”.
  

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. "Khaleesi," Jhiqui said, "what is wrong? Are you sick?"

• Daenerys notices on the very next day that her pain has lessened, and for some reason, her change prompts one of her hand maid to ask her if she is ill. I would think Daenerys’ appearance might improve with her new attitude.
  

"I was," she answered, standing over the dragon's eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shelf. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers . . . or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

• Daenerys stands over her dragon eggs when she announces that she WAS sick, which implies that she is no longer.
  
• Daenerys proves her brilliance when she notices that one of the dragon eggs is the same colors as the dragon who appeared in her dream.
  
• For some reason, Daenerys rationalizes now and later on the warmth she feels when she touches the dragon egg.
  

From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather.

:cheers:

The khal had commanded the handmaid Irri to teach Dany to ride in the Dothraki fashion, but it was the filly who was her real teacher. The horse seemed to know her moods, as if they shared a single mind. With every passing day, Dany felt surer in her seat. The Dothraki were a hard and unsentimental people, and it was not their custom to name their animals, so Dany thought of her only as the silver. She had never loved anything so much.

• Daenerys attributes her advancement in equestrian skills to her filly who teaches her by sharing her moods and her mind, which directly corresponds to the relationships several of the Starks form with their direwolves.
  
• The Dothraki custom of not naming their horses reminds me of the wildling’s custom of not naming their children until their survival is more certain.
  

[IRON BANK]

Thanks Iron Bank for posting that link,it was very interesting and expressed the significance of Targ genealogy and how the infighting drastically affected the family and its ability to hatch and bond with Dragons.

It is clear that there is something about the Targ family much like the Starks that set them apart and i believe it is hidden in their many assertions of having "Wolfblood" and "the blood of the Dragon".

I think your right it will be interesting to see with the new information we now have how far this latenet ability, and confirmed abilty between the two families goes.

Remember Jon stark has the blood of both families, also the baratheons are Targ bastards this leaves Gendry and Stannis along with jon to have oppurtunities to be dragon riders.

Also Dany being a latent warg is most accurate, Its quite interesting how connected she is to her dragons.