Would you have supported Daemon Blackfyre?

[Bael's Bastard]

Being a good warrior may not automatically mean you will be a good king, but it doesn't automatically mean you will be a bad one either. And though Daeron II brought Dorne into the kingdom marrying his sister to Maron Martell, arguably Baelor I had already laid the foundations for that with negotiating the marriage of Daeron to Myriah during his own reign. What's to say Daemon or his successor could not or would not have brought Dorne into the kingdom similarly? I am not sauing Daemon would have definitely been a better king, or his line would have been better than Daeron's ended up being, but I am not remembering anything that Daeron did that could not have possibly been done by someone else.

[Gurkhal]

I think that I would be very much tempted to side with the Black Dragon for various reasons but I would probably have picked the Red Dragon. Law and order are the foundations of peace and prosperity and thus I find it more important to fight for the principle of a stabile regjme than to start a new civil war across the realm every time that someone who isn't loved by all gets the throne.

The reasons that I think that I would be tempted to side with Daemons are the following:

- Daemon is a great warrior and Westerosi is ruled by a warrior-aristocracy, and thus he might be better suited to handle them than a book-worm

- Daemon seems to have a great deal of personal honor and in a system that's focused on individuals I think that is a very important trait. Don't know about Daeron but I know that Daemon will treat me fairly

- Daemon seems to be the kind of guy to inspire people and make them love him, which is once again a very important trait in a system like Westeros' feudalism. If the king is disliked he can be as good as he wants to, he's still facing rebellion and challenges no matter. Daemon could be the kind of guy everyone could unite behind to common peace. So even while Daemon might not be the perfect candidate he would probably fulfill his main task; to hold the realm together, thanks to his charisma and his sword-arm

- The fact that Daemon got Blackfyre is kind of telling to me. Daeron is the firstborn, as far as I've understood it, but Daemon got the symbol of kingship. I can't really say which one I would really think to be more legitimate

- Also if the case with giving Blackfyre to the heir is a precedent, then it could allow the king to pick his most suitable child to be the next king instead of just hoping the oldest will be ok at least, that potential change in system could make a great deal of difference for Westeros' future if implemented

- Also I think that it was a kind of asshole move to not give anything to the Houses who fought loyally for the Targaryens against the Dornish and instead just allow the former enemies to move into court and get influence there, not good at all Daeron, not good at all

But the reasons that I would go with the Red Dragon are:

- Daemon is to easily swayed by others. To be open for others views is a good thing but Daemon needs to make his own decisions to a great degree

- While the principle of eldest-goes-first can be debated it ensures that in theory power struggles should be fairly rare since everyone would know their place in the hierachy

- I think that in general all armed rebellions should be mercilessly put down to protect the stability of society and to give examples of what happens when people try that thing

- Daeron, while a book-worm, is intelligent and has enough other people around himself to complement his own weaknesses and that's a great strength, I don't recall Daemon having anything but warriors to help him (although I will cut him some slack since he was in the middle of a rebellion and didn't have much time to organize his administration for peace-time rule)

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Stick em with the pointy end.

[The Mother of The Others]

Blackfyres have always campaigned on a platform of Change. They offered Westeros a new set of Targs to choose, and would have brought changes to things like the imperial banners hanging in the throne room. Vague promises of change like that are very popular and have a way of making people wildly enthusiastic in their support for weird unknown guys who are running for office. So probably many readers here would have become Blackfyre fans so hard it may have caused spasms.

[LordStoneheart]

- The fact that Daemon got Blackfyre is kind of telling to me. Daeron is the firstborn, as far as I've understood it, but Daemon got the symbol of kingship. I can't really say which one I would really think to be more legitimate

- Also if the case with giving Blackfyre to the heir is a precedent, then it could allow the king to pick his most suitable child to be the next king instead of just hoping the oldest will be ok at least, that potential change in system could make a great deal of difference for Westeros' future if implemented

I thought this reason is completely an unfounded reason for him to think he could be king and not a precedent. Viserys I according to a few accounts wanted Rhaenyra to be his heir because she was first-born, not because he gave her a sword.

[Alester Florent]

This is fiction. So you shouldn't compare anyone to real kings. And Edward the third wasn't a great warrior. It was Edward the IV that was a warrior and never lost a battle

Edward III, while perhaps not quite as personally formidable as some of the rest of his family, was a perfectly capable warrior, who launched his reign with a coup (in person), and won one of the great all-time English victories at Crecy, as well as decisive battles at Halidon Hill, Sluys and Winchelsea. Come to think of it, I'm not sure he was ever defeated in the field either.

Most of the Plantagenets were warrior-kings. Those that weren't didn't tend to be terribly successful.

[James Arryn]

Edward III was a great warrior in his own right, absolutely. As was his son, the Black Prince. They stood at the dawn of the Age of the Longbow.

[Dagon Blackiron]

probally, he had a much better name than the targs and probally wouldnt be so much different than his targ cousins. other than that i cant say, i havnt read the hedgeknight novels since they are so expensive and i wait for them to come out in one book and before that i try not spoiler myself to much.

[Alester Florent]

Supporting a candidate for king because his surname sounds better is one of the more ridiculous reasons for doing so. In daily parlance it isn't even used. (In fact, although in Westeros they throw it about quite a lot in formal stylings, in reality there have been rulers having to commission research into what their actual surname even is).

[Lord Damian]

No, rules and laws of succession were there for a reason. however, people believe that Narys had the king by the Dragonknight and was illegit. The Targs from time to time, past over or went around the true heirs with excuses such as, "she is a girl" or "his or her's mom and or dad was mad or feeble minded, so, no" or "his is still a babe, pass him over". Honestly, it is who ever has the military might in KIngs Landing tht matters.

[James Arryn]

No, rules and laws of succession were there for a reason.

Wrong. They are there as a reflection of who won the last argument.

[mindchap]

Do we have it on anyone's authority that the sword is actually a symbol of kingship, or is that just an assumption made by us? I know each of the kings carried it but it's never written anywhere in text that says he who holds the sword holds the realm or am I forgetting something?

[The Lady Lannister]

Do we have it on anyone's authority that the sword is actually a symbol of kingship, or is that just an assumption made by us? I know each of the kings carried it but it's never written anywhere in text that says he who holds the sword holds the realm or am I forgetting something?

This argument must have raged on even at the time as

Egg very passionately explained in the Mystery Knight that there was no need to give a sword to a son who is not interested in the martial arts.

[Dagon Blackiron]

Supporting a candidate for king because his surname sounds better is one of the more ridiculous reasons for doing so. In daily parlance it isn't even used. (In fact, although in Westeros they throw it about quite a lot in formal stylings, in reality there have been rulers having to commission research into what their actual surname even is).

of course you are right, but as i said i know to little about the blackfyres and the blackfyre rebellions to really throw my support behind anyone there.and since this is fiction id just say that blackfyre is an awsome name.

[James Arryn]

This argument must have raged on even at the time as

Egg very passionately explained in the Mystery Knight that there was no need to give a sword to a son who is not interested in the martial arts.

Otoh, at least in the real world, a medieval monarch had to at least be able and willing to lead his army. You had to be willing to do, nominally, that which you expected others to do. We have a sense of political leadership from the age of nationalism, but in a feudal age it was much more about personal relationships and personal accountability, and a leader who could not lead in the most important aspect of the time was almost always regarded with something between suspicion and scorn.

Several able, intelligent medieval leaders who were not apt or willing participants in martial arts faced constant threats to their leadership for that reason alone. It really was the principal role of a feudal monarch. (Another reason why female leaders were historically problematic in this era.)

[mindchap]

This argument must have raged on even at the time as

Egg very passionately explained in the Mystery Knight that there was no need to give a sword to a son who is not interested in the martial arts.

I meant is there any mention of it being an official symbol anywhere else, like SSMs, or maybe the app, which I don't have. Believe me I remember every word Egg said, he's just memorable that way. :D

[Makes No Sansa]

Of course. Daeron the Good was Aemon the Dragonknight's bastard, and since Daemon was Targaryen on both sides too and was legitimized, he should have been King. Moreover, he was a very charismatic guy, there's no way you can say no to a man like that. It's unthinkable for me not to support him.

[Gurkhal]

I thought this reason is completely an unfounded reason for him to think he could be king and not a precedent. Viserys I according to a few accounts wanted Rhaenyra to be his heir because she was first-born, not because he gave her a sword.

True enough. But considering that, to my understanding, Blackfyre has always passed from the king to the heir it has a great deal of symbolic value. I would have to wonder why the king gave one son this precious family heirloom if he he did not intend for him to succeed him.

Also in the case of Rhaenyra she lost her legal rights to the throne the moment Aegon was born. Males inherit before woman if we're playing by the book.

[Colonel Green]

As to the original question, I'd have supported Daeron. Thing were going fine, and no plausible rationale was offered for changing kings apart from misogyny and xenophobia with regard to some of the people in Daeron's court.

Also in the case of Rhaenyra she lost her legal rights to the throne the moment Aegon was born. Males inherit before woman if we're playing by the book.

The king makes the law, though.

What's to say Daemon or his successor could not or would not have brought Dorne into the kingdom similarly?

Well, the fact that their movement was anti-Dornish in character and reacting to the Dornish influence in Daeron II's court would suggest that it wasn't on their mind.

[Ephicross]

Nah. He's suited to be a part of the Kingsguard at best.