Is Robert Baratheon an Overrated Warrior?

[Nictarion]

No. Anybody that wields a warhammer and smashed in a man's chest with one blow is definitely pretty tough.

[Whitering]

Robert and Tormund would be best friends, but Robert is in the wrong place. Robert was a Wildling stuck in the realm of civilization and laws. He was no doubt a great warrior, not peerless, but in that top tier of guys. Gregorish, but a bit smaller and a bit quicker.

I really hope we get to see Tormund kicking some ass at some point.

[TheZone]

Robert was a fighter, he truly was. I hate to always do this, but being a commander and fighter are two different thing. The dude fought with a hammer and still one( FIGHTING WITH A HAMMER IS A DISADVANTAGE, LEAVES YOU OPEN FOR SPEARS AND SWORDS.) He was filled with aldrenaline and anger. He was unstoppable. It could have been Gregor or Drogo on that bridge. Robert would still destroy them

[Artos Stark]

Meh, possibly a little bit over rated. I don't think he's on Dayne, Barristan or Jaime's level but he certainly was a very good warrior and fierce fighter.

[BericDondarrion]

I know people like to question truths since we have such a long time to wait for wow, but no. Everything GRRM has written about Robert shows him to be a peerless warrior. A fighter who could defeat anyone. Rhaegar was considered a fine and skilled prince/warrior, But Robert literally smashed in his chest so hard his rubies fell from his armor. Robert in his prime was the best fighter of the series. He won his kingdom singlehandedly with a single, massive swing of his war hammer.

[IRON BANK]

As you first brought out, robert is a good warrior just a bad leader. terrible decision maker and as you touched on was never fit to lead.

[OberynBlackfyre]

mmmm idk, I don't think the term "overrated" she be used for his prowees in battle, because everyone said that he was a great warrior, and he even usually won the melees.....in his later years, I think his skill, pride, and judgement all went to shit though

[JonCon's Red Beard]

As a warrior? No, although he might have compensated strength instead of brains.

As a commander? Dunno. Doesn't look like he was a smart man, though.

As a King? Terrible.

As a person? He's like Charlie Sheen. He's the guy every other guy would love to have a beer with, but honestly, would you like him married to your daughter or sister?

[Batman]

People will question anything at this point. GRRM better come out with a new book soon, or people will start questioning whether Bloodraven was an other and if this is all a song being sung in the future.

[Tony Soprano]

Everything GRRM has written so far proves that Robert was one of the mightiest warriors of his time. He was unstoppable in battle. Adrenaline rushing through him, his thoughts filled with anger...he could have crushed almost anyone the same way he crushed Rhaeghar.

[Batman]

I think Robert is underrated as a general somewhat. Lots of people says he was only a figurehead but his tactical and operational ability is praised far more than someone like Ned for instance.

Why is it that people seem to underestimate Roberts command? Summerhall was a Hannibal style move, Stannis has stated Robert won battles against odds worse than 5 to 1 and he seems to be respected for his leadership by Ned, Jon and the Hound. I dont get it.

He seems to rely on speed, aggresive movement and offense. For some reason I think Napoleon without the weird Russian sized ego.

[Chaircat Meow]

Why is it that people seem to underestimate Roberts command?

I don't know. The author gives Robert the best military reputation in the books. Some of it is because he doesn't come across as bright to some people in GoT. They see him as a very instinctual/emotional warrior and feel a general needs to be more brainy. And while it's true Robert isn't going to have been the subtlest of commanders there isn't really much sign he wasn't reasonably intelligent: he was just drunk and lazy (he was putting in the effort in the war in contrast).

It is also about Ned. The Ned doesn't really have a military reputation so you have to say Robert's really owes to The Ned (who was the brains) but we just don't see it. There isn't really any support for this though.

[Sansa_Stark]

I know people like to question truths since we have such a long time to wait for wow, but no. Everything GRRM has written about Robert shows him to be a peerless warrior. A fighter who could defeat anyone. Rhaegar was considered a fine and skilled prince/warrior, But Robert literally smashed in his chest so hard his rubies fell from his armor. Robert in his prime was the best fighter of the series. He won his kingdom singlehandedly with a single, massive swing of his war hammer.

No such thing as a peerless warrior according to Barristan Selmy himself.

[Nyrhex]

Why is it that people seem to underestimate Roberts command? Summerhall was a Hannibal style move, Stannis has stated Robert won battles against odds worse than 5 to 1 and he seems to be respected for his leadership by Ned, Jon and the Hound. I dont get it.

He seems to rely on speed, aggresive movement and offense. For some reason I think Napoleon without the weird Russian sized ego.

The reason, at least for me, to question Robert's command, is that I ask why did he do XYZ, and how did he accomplish XYZ? Summerhall is understandable to get praise, as it's three battles in one day and all, but then he takes his army around the Crownlands to link up with the rest of the rebels. Why? Were the Gold Cloacks a larger force then they were in ACOK? The army sent to the Trident does not exist yet. The Reach's and Dorne's armies are still a long way from there as well. There are smaller battles in the Vale and the Riverlands, but still, I don't see why he would go around KL instead of straight at it.

Robert chose to secure the Stormlands by taking Ashford. Why? Is one castle enough that Mace's army can't place a small force to siege it and move on? The Tyrells have four army groups as of ADWD, one under Loras/Redwine in Dragonstone, one under Mace just returned from sieging Storm's End, one under Tarly recently returned from Duskendale to KL, and one under Garlan, being ammased to fight the Ironborn invasion. What makes Robert think that taking this castle would stop the Reach there?

I don't like saying that someone is XYZ because people in the books say he is XYZ. I judge them based on thier actions. Stannis says that Robert won against worse odds then 5-1 as a reasoning for him being able to win against Bolton, but I think it's more to do with his feelings about Robert, how he feels that Robert was better then him at everyting. Stannis defeated a force 20 times his own size just before stating that, but he doesn't mention that as reasoning for why he can win, as he still thinks that Robert bested him at everything.

That's all from Robert's rebellion. We can also question his decisions after he is crowned, and when talking about the possible Dothraki invasion.

When Jon Arryn dies, Robert wants to give the Handship to Ned. Stannis is the Master of Ships, but has fled after he thinks that Jon Arryn was murdered and he might be next. Robert handles the realm for months without a Master of ships. When talking about a possible Dothraki invasion, at no time does he ask for the opinion of the Master of ships, out of hate/contempt/spite/wahtever to Stannis. A reasonable course of action when you might face an amphibious invasion in the east, would be to use your fleet. Robert never thinks about that, because that would mean talking to Stannis. Instead he keeps talking about how such a war would only be fought on land, completly ignoring the fact that he owns a war fleet, while the best the Dothraki can get is a bunch of merchant ships, and so decideds to kill Dany. Robert even goes as far as giving Jaime Lannister the title Warden of the East, even though Jaime has very little experiance in command, as can be seen with his handling of his army in AGOT later on. Robert chose Jaime over Stannis, even though Stannis is in a perfect position, commands the Royal Navy, and actually has experiance with command.

These are the few examples that spring to mind when I think of Robert's command. As a warrior, with his power and his hammer, no I don't think he is overraterd. As a commander, I know he is.

[Mikkel]

As a person? He's like Charlie Sheen. He's the guy every other guy would love to have a beer with, but honestly, would you like him married to your daughter or sister?

That may just be the best summary of Robert's character I've seen. Well except for the fact that Robert realizes the life he'd made for himself sucked, something it doesn't appear Charlie Sheen feels about his... but then Robert only really confides in Ned, and we have no idea if ol' Charlie does the same to his old friends (if he has any). Okay, that's way too many mentions of Charlie Sheen in one post, especially without being sarcastic about the whole thing.

ETA, OT:

No, I don't think Bobby B was an overrated warrior, it seems he deserved every bit of credit he got - of course it all went to hell after he became King, but that doesn't take away from his skills when he was still "just" The Stormlord (how's that for most badass hereditary title ever, by the way?).

[Ducks in a Field]

I think aot of the problem is people don't tend to see Robert as the bright and shining star that he was in his youth. They see the broken and pathetic man that he became.

Robert was never made to run an entire Kingdom, but I tend to think that maybe he could have done.

But Robert lost Lyanna.

I don't think that Robert truely loved Lyanna, but he was invested in this perfect idea that he had of her for whatever reason, and it broke him to loose that perfect image.

Given time to get to know the real Lyanna, he might have gotten over it and moved on, but he never had the chance to fall out of love.

Robert is depressed and the last time he felt alive was when he was fighting for Lyanna's hand. I think he confuses that with only caring ablout war (rather than war being the last time he was happy). He also assosiates the kingdom with Lyanna's loss.

All these things lead to him not being the man that he was. He ignores the kingdom he won because he sees it as a hollow prize and he abuses his wife because he sees her as second best to an ideal never realised.

Robert could have been great, but he broke and never recovered.

The Robert we see is not the best of him, and the best of him was almost peerless.

[Mikkel]

Well said, Mr. Ducks

[geogus]

I think young Robert might be.

I'm really fond of young Robert but I strongly dislike the man he became.

I Still think that, at spite of all his flaws, he was a good king.

First of all, he kept a lasting peace.

He was a warrior, he liked to fight, probably so much that in batlles i bet he stayed in vanguard.

However, he wasnt bloodthirsty. He avoided all the war he could, even an invasion to summer islands, which he could have started just to fulfill his need for a good figth if he was a diferent kind of person.

He chaneled his figtthing energy to hunting and torunaments, sparing the blood of many.

He was forgiving (which I think its a great trait, in especial in Westeros world) and capable to turn an enemy into a friend.

Imagine how many wars and plots he prevented due to this trait.

He was a warrior and brawler, but was a peace lover. He enjoyed the pleasures of peace and the (aparent) prosperity of the realm ( I say aparent because the lack of financial control and irresponsibilty that led to bankruptcy)

One of book quotes that i like about Robert a lot is when he was talking with Ned in the journey back to KL from WF about women (walking around almost naked in summer), juicy fruits, golden roses, the cool windy at Stormns End bay, peace and prosperity. He said all the PEOPLE (not just women, but elders, men and children as well) were happy and fat .

He laughed happy,

He wasnt responsible, but was caring about his people, and that forgives a lot of his sins

[Makes No Sansa]

Robert Baratheon was unstoppable, there was no one who could match him. So no, he isn't overrated at all. He's up there, at the top, with the best warriors in Westerosi history (Daemon Blackfyre, Arthur Dayne, Aemon the Dragonknight, the Laughing Storm, Cregan Stark, Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy...).

[geogus]

"I tell you this--Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust."

"Robert was the true steel."

--Donal Noye, CoK

It doesn't sound to me as though Robert was overrated, although perhaps that is because I have so much respect for Donal Noye. But his describing Robert as "made for fighting" seems significant.

This quote makes me think Robert would end his life life happier and better if he was a younnger son, not the heir of his house.

HE would be a very good Ser