Sci-2 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 How many people actually seek out someone of higher or equal IQ let alone plan for or even believe in the link between race and mean IQ?ETA: sailer is hilariously bad at cloaking his racism and sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 How many people actually seek out someone of higher or equal IQ let alone plan for or even believe in the link between race and mean IQ?[tangent]I look for intelligence, and I don't really think I'm alone in that. Since I'm spending a significant amount of time with whoever I'm dating, I don't want to have to constantly slow myself down. But even if I believed in the link between race and IQ, I wouldn't really trust the average anyway. I'm above the mean IQ, my brother is below it. Trying to use any kind of shorthand at the individual level -- and who you're dating is usually about as individual as you get -- has a good chance of biting you in the ass.[/tangent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Not to mention that there are some very obvious reasons for black men to prefer white women to a greater extent than white men prefer black women. (hint: relative status) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 [tangent]I look for intelligence, and I don't really think I'm alone in that. Since I'm spending a significant amount of time with whoever I'm dating, I don't want to have to constantly slow myself down. But even if I believed in the link between race and IQ, I wouldn't really trust the average anyway. I'm above the mean IQ, my brother is below it. Trying to use any kind of shorthand at the individual level -- and who you're dating is usually about as individual as you get -- has a good chance of biting you in the ass.[/tangent]Looking for comparable intelligence is a bit different than seeking out IQ in my opinion. I like people who have a wide range of interests, which includes being an avid reader as well as being artistic in some fashion.However, this isn't something I think necessarily correlates with high IQ. I could care less about someone's spacial reasoning.I've yet to see anyone with a racial fetish be concerned with IQ. If anything, their insecurities demand someone they can lord over in some fashion which at least suggest that intellect would intimidate them.Basically, I'll need better data than Sailer who as far as I can tell uses the disparity in the mean IQ of races to make unfounded conclusions that conform to his biases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 How many people actually seek out someone of higher or equal IQ let alone plan for or even believe in the link between race and mean IQ?ETA: sailer is hilariously bad at cloaking his racism and sexism.Is he even trying?Not to mention that there are some very obvious reasons for black men to prefer white women to a greater extent than white men prefer black women. (hint: relative status)The answer is lot more complicated than just relative status. If it was just a question of relative status, then why would white women be attracted to black men? Why don't black women prefer white men? Why are white man asian women pairings much more common than asian man white woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Why don't black women prefer white men?Because it takes two to tango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 How many people actually seek out someone of higher or equal IQ let alone plan for or even believe in the link between race and mean IQ?ETA: sailer is hilariously bad at cloaking his racism and sexism.I just wanted to point out that I disagree with the IQ theory, acknowledging race isn't intrinsically racist. I have read nothing racist in these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I just wanted to point out that I disagree with the IQ theory, acknowledging race isn't intrinsically racist. I have read nothing racist in these posts.Huh? I wasn't accusing anyone here of racism. I was talking about Sailer being racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBadgerlock Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Can I just point out that IQ is not synonymous with intelligence. There is (probably?) a correlation between IQ and intelligence, of course, but there (probably?) is no true way of measuring a sort of base intelligence level.White people (in the US, at least) score higher than black people on IQ tests, meaning they have higher IQs. After all, "an IQ" is merely the result one achieves on an IQ test.There is a correlation between IQ and "race" but that does not imply a correlation between race and intelligence. IQ scores can be affected by any number of societal factors, ranging from education to self-esteem and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I admire HE's ability to derail. I should be taking notes. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I admire HE's ability to derail. I should be taking notes. ;-)Ahem. I posted two highly relevant links. With data, analysis, etc. Stuff that even intellectual titans as myself find illuminating and thought-provoking.They are germane. I did not derail.What I did was to honestly answer a direct question from you, to the best of my ability. I admit that I did it in part to get this thread out of the intellectual gutter that is identity politics and social constructivism. But that does not count as derailment, I merely used explanatory models outside the frame of reference of the original poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Huh? I wasn't accusing anyone here of racism. I was talking about Sailer being racist.Not everybody who acknowledges that race exists and that there may be statistical difference between races is racist. I'm pretty sure Happy Ent and Steven Pinker aren't racist. I'm willing to give Charles Murray the benefit of the doubt. Steve Sailer, on the other hand, is almost certainly racist.As far interracial dating, the best theory I've heard is that society assigns some sort of masculinity quotient to races, with blacks being the highest and asians the lowest, so that black men are seen as more masculine than white and asian men, and thus more desirable and asian women are seen as more feminine than white women and black women and thus more desirable. The model's not perfect (why aren't there more black man/asian woman pairings), but it intuitively makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponine Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 This [dating] disparity is a manifestation of a silent conspiracy by the racist white society and self-hating Asian [nasty word for ``women''] to effect the genocide of Asian Americans.OH THE IRONY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ahem. I posted two highly relevant links. With data, analysis, etc. Stuff that even intellectual titans as myself find illuminating and thought-provoking.They are germane. I did not derail.What I did was to honestly answer a direct question from you, to the best of my ability. I admit that I did it in part to get this thread out of the intellectual gutter that is identity politics and social constructivism. But that does not count as derailment, I merely used explanatory models outside the frame of reference of the original poster.So you really think sexual fetish is an expression of genetic preference?ETA: I confess to being amused by someone linking to sailer as a means to escape a perceived intellectual gutter. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponine Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ep - I tried to send you a message, but I think your inbox if full, so to speak.I had a similar reaction to Yoadm. Send me to country X, and the opposite sex of country X will likely prove to be attractive.Sorry, I cleared some space. Yeah, I don't think it was ever anyone's purpose to make a statement that if one finds X women attractive, they must be a racist or a fetishist. Or that if you meet a person of X race and discover you have a lot in common or a lot to talk about, that being interested in a relationship isn't perfectly normal. Working in Beijing for a few years would create huge commonalities with other people who lived there. I've dated a lot of white men who I met through having a similar background or similar interests or being in school together. The one situation I talked about upthread, one red flag that I would see now but didn't at 19 was that the guy didn't have the same interests in me, or the same goals in life, or anything that would have naturally brought us together - his main interests were Japanese things that I had either never heard of or had no particular interest in - but he was almost immediately certain that I was just the perfect girl for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Just like for the white/asian pairing, the black/white pairing and the associated stats on it are a result of alot of cultural issues.I mean, the two are almost identical really. White-man-on-asian-woman is as much a fetish as black-man-on-white-woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaing Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 OH THE IRONY.That whole post was more than insane enough to keep even me out of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 ETA: I confess to being amused by someone linking to sailer as a means to escape a perceived intellectual gutter. :-)As I said, I am completely oblivious to these kinds of collectivist arguments. I don’t care who says something. I only care if it is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Sailer harps on about how "conventional explanations don't work" and that they "violate conventional sociological theories" and then presents explanations directly in line with common sociological theories. His attempt to instead tie this back to genetics is rather comical and justifiably left as a throw-away line towards the end.If this is an attempt to "lift us from the gutter", it's rather a failure.Asian/White and Black/White intermarriage dynamics line up pretty much dead on with what you'd expect given the societal stereotypes and such about the various groups. Shit, just a glance at a bunch of porn sites is highly informative on this note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 As I said, I am completely oblivious to these kinds of collectivist arguments. I don't care who says something. I only care if it is interesting.What did sailer say that was interesting?eta: Sorry was posting from my phone. My longer question is what exactly are you hoping to accomplish HE? Prove that there is an entirely reasonable explanation for racial fetishization?The important thing there is to separate fetishization from attraction.I think the reasonable argument is that there is nothing morally wrong with simply being sexually attracted to a race, since sexual attraction is an involuntary/subconscious reaction.The problem is racist assumptions, the desire to fulfill some perverted fantasy [where the other person has not given full consent], or that the person doesn't matter at all so long as checking off "fucked an Asian" on one's bucket list is accomplished.The last one could be morally sound if you are totally upfront with potential partners and the person you approach consents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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