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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion


Ran
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Was I the only one who loved the Jaime/Brienne fight? It's much more technical and skill-based than all the others in the show. Instead of the classical hit and miss of most movies and shows, this one is all about momentum and stamina. I could almost spot a stamina bar over Jaime's head draining after each block or attack.

I actually hated it. It made Jaimie looked completely inept and almost glossed over the fact that his hands were shackled together. This is supposed to be one of the best swordsman in Westeros and he was being tossed about like a ragdoll. If you didnt read the books you would think he were an average swordsman at best. Even putting that aside I thought it was clumsy. Brienne was armored and didnt use this to her advantage at all... Bleh. Hated it.

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Hmmm, I thought episodes 4 and 6 were two of the weakest in season 2. She did a great job with the Rodrik death scene and the birthing of the shadow baby, but the rest of those episodes were really uneven. Episode 4 has that absolutely awful scene of Dany at the gates of Qarth and Xaro invoking the rite of Sumak or whatever the fuck that was, and episode six had some pretty lame Harrenhal action with Arya running around and also Dany's horribly written speech to the Spice King. At least they had the sense to cut the Doreah strangling Irri scene from episode six; I just watched that deleted scene on youtube and had it been kept it would have been by far the worst scene in all of Game of Thrones.

That deleted scene...is just.....I try to forget about most of season 2 to be honest.

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Yikes. I'm so happy I can enjoy the books and the show separately. I thought with the level of action and pacing and the introduction of characters, the jackals on the boards would stop bitching for one episode. Guess I was wrong. Personally I never complain about slow pacing in HBO shows as it always pays off later. Gotta remember these seasons are one continuous story so setup is necessary.

Loved the interplay between Marge and Joff. Sansa confided in the Tyrells that Joffrey was a monster, so Marge used it expertly by hinting she's into sadistic shit too to get the King to like her. If he was into something else, no doubt she would become that woman for him. I like where Dungeons and Dragons are taking her.

I like that they went with the Queen of Thorns. I assumed they had Dormer absorb all of QoT's powers Highlander style, with a sprinkling of Anne Boleyn. Glad I was wrong.

Cat admitting to being wrong about Jon was a bit irksome, since with the "it should have been you" comment, book Cat is clearly not a fan of his husband's bastard. This probably makes her more sympathetic for the RW, but I wish they handled it differently. For the record I thought book Cat was plenty sympathetic in the book and I felt bad for her. Didn't feel so bad when she came back as Lady Stoneheart and unfairly hung Brienne.

I giggled way too much at that.

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I feel like Sophie Turner is this way in all her scenes, quite frankly. I think just juxtaposed with Dormer and Rigg she really looked as wooden as she normally is.

She is wooden as a character, not as an actress. Sansa is a repressed and confused teenager under threat for her life. She is clumsy in all sorts of ways as she should be.

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Was I the only one who loved the Jaime/Brienne fight? It's much more technical and skill-based than all the others in the show. Instead of the classical hit and miss of most movies and shows, this one is all about momentum and stamina. I could almost spot a stamina bar over Jaime's head draining after each block or attack.

I thought it was great. Very 'waterdanceish'.

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Overall, I wasn't a big fan of this episode and preferred the premiere. It had it's moments, but way, way too jumpy with not really all that much happening in any of the storylines, except maybe Jaime's. Overall, I counted nine storylines this episode, and I really wasn't feeling the pacing; felt like three minutes were spent with a character, then cut to another three minutes, then cut, and so forth. WHy not just have Arya's scenes with the Brotherhood back to back?

Also, while I didn't dislike any of the new scenes this episode, they also didn't really do much for me. I don't really see hte point of that Margaery Joffrey scene, which was probably the longest scene in teh episode. I think the time could have been better utilized on Jon Snow--who really does nothing this episode--or even providing a longer intro for the Brotherhood without Banners.

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I actually hated it. It made Jaimie looked completely inept and almost glossed over the fact that his hands were shackled together. This is supposed to be one of the best swordsman in Westeros and he was being tossed about like a ragdoll. If you didnt read the books you would think he were an average swordsman at best. Even putting that aside I thought it was clumsy. Brienne was armored and didnt use this to her advantage at all... Bleh. Hated it.

Thank you. Another sane person coming to my defense. I don't understand how one could see this fight in another light. ESPECIALLY if they have not read the books to know how it actually went down.

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COMPLETELY AGREE!!!! I have no idea what the writers were smoking, but if I was in charge of the show, this is a piece of the story I would have been absolutely sure was NAILED in the adaptation! It is such a pivotal moment for her character and the story, and they have completely botched it beyond belief.

Let's be honest here. There's no way you could handle this show better than the current staff at HBO. This stuff is more complex to juggle around then you're giving credit. Unless you reveal yourself to be GRRM himself, and even he'd admit it'd be difficult to adapt his series without forgetting stuff or making mistakes. Remember he uses Westeros.org as a guide for his own writing, it gets so complicated.

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I definitely disagree with you there. I had a few issues with episode 2, but love the way Taylor faithfully adapted the Queen of Thorns scene and the new scene she added with Joff and Margery. Taylor also did a very nice job with episodes 4 and 6 of Season 2 (the Roderick death scene!!). She's one of the better writers on the show IMO; I think Cogman is the best, though.

Its pretty easy to write a scene that follows the book closely. Its a good writer that can make changes and add scenes that are still faithful to the book. She doesnt do that at all. If anything they completely contradict whats in the book...

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That deleted scene...is just.....I try to forget about most of season 2 to be honest.

Haha, you're not the only one. Season 2 actually does have some great individual scenes and one great individual episode--Blackwater of course, though episode 3 is mostly good as well--but everything else is very inconsistent. Really good scenes are followed by just outright bad ones, and vice versa. I'm trying to forget most of the stuff I hated in seaosn 2 for this season, which is pretty much all of Qarth and almost all of Jon's storyline.

They're definitely doing better so far at least.

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Don't project. GRRM loves the show, but has always said it's D&D's baby not his.

He also loves book purists because they flatter him by becoming angry about everything that is omitted from the show. I think George is doing just fine.

no, I'll continue to project and post other things I believe.

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Its pretty easy to write a scene that follows the book closely. Its a good writer that can make changes and add scenes that are still faithful to the book. She doesnt do that at all. If anything they completely contradict whats in the book...

How did the Joff/Margery scene--the main "added" scene--contracdict what was in the book. If anything, it enriched it. And I think it does take a lot of skill to adapt a very faithful dialogue scene--knowing what lines to cut for timing and flow reasons, which words to change to make it more understandable. Screenwriting is not easy, or we would all be doing it.

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NCW is not actually a world class swordsman. He just plays one on TV. I'd imagine the fact he was wearing chains while not actually being a great swordsman would explain the fight.

I figure they went with 3 eyed raven to keep some distance between the 3ER and crows of the NW.

Jaime saying "you don't get to choose who you love" was an excellent scene. He has become Jaime Lannister to me. Awesome episode.

My nephew hasn't read the books. He loves the show. It's his favorite TV show ever. His enjoyment of the show helps me to avoid ridiculous nitpicking. I mean, there are dozens of threads about dozens of characters with dozens of different posters all arguing different viewpoints on each character. It's silly to bitch that the show character doesn't exactly match your idea of who that character is. I just don't understand.

Oh well, I'm enjoying the shit out of this show. Most of all I'm just grateful it exists. If it didn't, I doubt I'd have ever discovered what's become my favorite books ever.

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How did the Joff/Margery scene--the main "added" scene--contracdict what was in the book. If anything, it enriched it. And I think it does take a lot of skill to adapt a very faithful dialogue scene--knowing what lines to cut for timing and flow reasons, which words to change to make it more understandable. Screenwriting is not easy, or we would all be doing it.

That scene was garbage. Boring and unnecessary. We already know TV Joff is a deviant from earlier scenes. This scene didn't add anything new and slowed the pace of the episode even more.

Additionally, the scene with Shae and Tyrion was arguably one of the worst and most unnecessary scenes so far. I almost threw something at my TV. Why not fill that time with more about the Reeds? Or include more of Arya's storyline that has been cut out? Its comical some of the choices they are making.

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Haha, you're not the only one. Season 2 actually does have some great individual scenes and one great individual episode--Blackwater of course, though episode 3 is mostly good as well--but everything else is very inconsistent. Really good scenes are followed by just outright bad ones, and vice versa. I'm trying to forget most of the stuff I hated in seaosn 2 for this season, which is pretty much all of Qarth and almost all of Jon's storyline.

They're definitely doing better so far at least.

Cheers man. And I love Stone brewery so I'm a fan of your username/avatar.

Let's be honest here. There's no way you could handle this show better than the current staff at HBO. This stuff is more complex to juggle around then you're giving credit. Unless you reveal yourself to be GRRM himself, and even he'd admit it'd be difficult to adapt his series without forgetting stuff or making mistakes. Remember he uses Westeros.org as a guide for his own writing, it gets so complicated.

I didn't say I could handle the show better (although plenty of times I believe many of us could), but as we have discussed the last couple of pages, the sequence of events was laid out for them in ACOK. Nothing had to be changed whatsoever. It would have simply taken one small change to the Catelyn scene, and everything would have actually made sense. If you have to be some kind of master television writer to pull that off, then I have lost faith in television writers. A child could do that. It is basically simple copy and paste.

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That scene was garbage. Boring and unnecessary. We already know TV Joff is a deviant from earlier scenes. This scene didn't add anything new and slowed the pace of the episode even more.

Additionally, the scene with Shae and Tyrion was arguably one of the worst and most unnecessary scenes so far. I almost threw something at my TV. Why not fill that time with more about the Reeds? Or include more of Arya's storyline that has been cut out? Its comical some of the choices they are making.

This has been a problem that has (IMO) plagued the show since season 2.

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That scene was garbage. Boring and unnecessary. We already know TV Joff is a deviant from earlier scenes. This scene didn't add anything new and slowed the pace of the episode even more.

Additionally, the scene with Shae and Tyrion was arguably one of the worst and most unnecessary scenes so far. I almost threw something at my TV. Why not fill that time with more about the Reeds? Or include more of Arya's storyline that has been cut out? Its comical some of the choices they are making.

I tend to agree. I didn't think any of the scenes were garbage, but I think they could be spending the time better. That scene wasn't bad, but wasn't necessary either. I'm not really sure what hte point of it was to be honest. I don't really like that we're getting more Margaery and Joffrey this season so far than Arya.

That Tyrion scene also was kinda pointless. Frankly, Shae is annoying, and they just seemed to throw that scene in so we know that Tyrion is still around.

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