Reviewing Dark Wings, Dark Words

[Westeros]

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[cybobbie]

I didn't feel that this episode was languid pacing as the analysis pointed out, I think it was a good pace for introducing many characters and also it well conected between the scenes, IMO.

Totally agree with the comments about Thoros and I got the feeling from non book readers here at home, that as you said he will be a very liked character in the show. However, I didn't like Maisie Williams performance too much in her scenes.

Edit: something very odd however was Thoros singing Rains of Castemere!

Jaime and Brienne scenes were a prize for me, because I was really looking forward to see them. Loved Jaime's lines and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was great, specially when he changes completely the pace and the look on his face when stating that 'you don't chose who you love'. And finally Locke is introduced, but so far there's nothing much to say about this new character that replaces the Bloody Mummers...

It's very strange to see Shae (not to mention, very hard due to the bad performance) so worried about Sansa, but I guess the show writers are going somewhere with all that.

Despite some critics that I've read here in the forums before the episode aired, I really loved Diane Rigg's interpretation of Lady Olenna. I liked that it was toned down comparing to the book, because I had the impression that it would be too much for the screen. As for Censei scene with Joffrey, well, it was too long and considering the scene in the first episode, I hope that don't feel the need to bring it again, I mean it's clear enough by now. However I liked his scene with Mag (despite again for the poor acting by Natalie Dormer, IMO) and Joffrey.

Finally I was very curious to read the analysis on Cat's part on this episode because I'm getting lost (apart from frustrated) with the development of the character in the show. I imagine that for people that only watch the show and didn't read the books it's ok, but for book readers as you said, Cat is gone and they replaced her with a new character that I have no idea where will go from here. All the talking about Jon was hard to watch, but again, the non readers with me were totally fine with it and I can't talk about it with them because I won't be able to keep my mouth shut!

[DurararaFTW]

Honestly one moment of weakness is 17 years is not half a worrying as a lot of the changes they made to Catelyn or the past two seasons. Yes, the legitimasing being seen as a viable option in the show is going a bit far but blaming herself isn't ,she DID send him to the Wall when he could otherwise be at Bran or Robbs side, protecting them from Theon.

If anything I'm more upset about the fact that Catelyn and Robb STILL aren't aware of Bran and Rickon's perceived fate and probably never will be. They just think they've gone missing, which is exactly what happened. Other then that, this episode is quite a bit better then 1 due to it actually being able to cover a bit of grounddue to it's narrowed focus.

[MisunderstoodFrey]

They just think they've gone missing, which is exactly what happened.

I thought it was the same as the book and they believe them to be dead....?

[Toxspecific]

I really liked it. They introduced characters well and we got to see Theon, unlike in the books.

[DaveSnow House Stark]

I liked the episode. I was really suprised at the scene when Cat talks about Jon. I thought as a whole it was a really good show, I know this by the fact that when I realized it was almost over I was mad! They are doing a real good job foreshadowing the discord with Karstark and Bolton, you can definately feel the tension.

[Connor Snow]

Really liking it so far, just want more Roose Bolton and Karstark, needs to happen.

[boojam]

Let me get this off my chest.

I think Natalie Dormer is a fine actress and doing an excellent job, I have seen no analysis of what her defects are, so there!

I am thrilled they turned Margaery like her grandmother Olenna into Machiavellian schemers. Twyin needs a counter point, of course even in the books we never find out if he was in cahoots with them!

At KL talk about foreshadowing!

Everybody miss the Tyrion - Shae dance? "I told you not to come here ... so on and so on" 'Father would kill you if he knew...

Shae: Ignores all of Tyrion's protests ... hint, hint, wink, wink.

And Dave and Dan, come on.

Staring into the mirror Joffery and Margery

We see the image of both of them:

Margery aiming the crossbow at the mirror:

(Something like...)

Joffery:" You would kill?"

Margery: "Yes"

Does that foreshadow something of does it not?

Last week it was LF.

Next week I guess it will be Varys?

Is'nt Tyrion picking this up? , actually in the books he kind of does and kind of doesn't , which I found puzzling.

Ahh ... but I love this wheels within wheels within wheels stuff , carry on Dave and Dan!

George pushed it about as far as the plot could stand. Well D and D seem to be subtle enough, seems the audience is missing it.

Wow it was sort of scramble - scramble with Arya.

(Did they have swords episode 10 season 2. Like the remark about Hot Pie.)

(Doesn't anybody carry food and water? I expect GRRM to complain as much about this next DVD as he did about the lack of helms!)

Another foreshadow, the whole deal about Gendry, they know who and where he worked at KL, hmm.. another wink wink?

Someone elsewhere noted that D and D have complained about not having enough spacetime in 10 hours to fit the material and then they invent side loops not in the novels ... as was noted some of this had to be done to keep the visual narrative interesting but some of these are eating screen time with zero sum payoff.

[Abaddon]

I liked the episode quite a lot, not as much as last week but still very solid. Just a quick comment:

Edit: something very odd however was Thoros singing Rains of Castemere!

I don't say this very often (really, ever) but this felt very lazy on the part of the show. The only reason I can imagine them having him singing that song is because they had it written and handy. And they want to plant it in viewer's minds for later in the season. The latter is generally speaking a fine idea, but having Thoros singing it is just bizarre and totally out of place.

[Abaddon]

I thought it was the same as the book and they believe them to be dead....?

No. In the book they receive word that Bran and Rickon have been killed by Theon much earlier on. In the show, at this point, it's quite clear that Robb says they are "missing" and he even suggests they might have escaped. As the previous poster suggested I can't really see a way for them to find out now that they're actually dead. Which puts into a question whether we will see a (presumably) important scene later on in the season...

[Abaddon]

Let me get this off my chest.

I think Natalie Dormer is a fine actress and doing an excellent job, I have seen no analysis of what her defects are, so there!

Ran makes it very clear he doesn't have any complaints with her acting. Sometimes there are personality traits, facial expressions, tone of voice, whatever... something about an actor that just grates on you. I don't know what else you want him to say?

[boojam]

I liked the episode quite a lot, not as much as last week but still very solid. Just a quick comment:

I don't say this very often (really, ever) but this felt very lazy on the part of the show. The only reason I can imagine them having him singing that song is because they had it written and handy. And they want to plant it in viewer's minds for later in the season. The latter is generally speaking a fine idea, but having Thoros singing it is just bizarre and totally out of place.

I puzzled over that too, but then I thought Thoros was singing it as a jape at the Lanisters.

[boojam]

Ran makes it very clear he doesn't have any complaints with her acting. Sometimes there are personality traits, facial exp<b></b>ressions, tone of voice, whatever... something about an actor that just grates on you. I don't know what else you want him to say?

I don't see that. I see an actress who has learned her craft, they have changed her from the wallflower in the book and I like that.

[Ramsay B.]

The Jojen introduction scene with Summer and Osha was great. I'm glad they mentioned how close Howland Reed and Ned were, also.

Finally a glimpse of Ramsay and Vargo Locke.

[Alia of the knife]

I too like how the Tyrells are being handled as Machiavellian schemers, because even Dontos said, "oh you must be careful my Lady, for they are Lannisters with Flowers," and I've always felt that Marge was Cersei's punishment for Tywin tring to replace Elia.

Marge is just a saner, better Branded version of Cersei, but while she is the "safer" Queen, the Tyrells aren't to be anymore trusted than the Lannisters.

I felt the pace was a little more "calm" than last Season when it felt like they were trying to cram every single detail in, but really couldn't.

I liked the Cat moment, and perhaps thats something that Martin always wanted to "tweak," just as Lucas likes to "tweak." He may tweak more before it's over.

It's doubtful that we'll see Ned Dayne, or hear that conversation between he and Arya, just as it's likely we may not hear the TOH story from Meera, as it seems, at least for now they aren't addressing the theories of Jons parentage until maybe later.

I also liked the dark humor that seeped through at times, like the part where Arya gets her sword smacked out of her hand, and she just goes, picks it up, and sits down.

The guys just look sideways at her as if to say "good job."

I did find Joffreys/Caligula interaction with Marge amusing and did like the mirror bit where she's basically telling him: "Oh yeah, your toast."

There are many shows that change things up, now granted, I've read aSoIaF so no real surprises, but in "The Walking Dead," one of the most popular characters doesn't even exist, and the main bad guys personna was totally changed, but since I didn't read the Graphic Novels, it still keeps me on my the edge of my seat whereas here, I'm just more intrigued on how the characters have been interpreted.

Love, love Lena Hedley as an actress, but in my mind, I actually see Charlize Therons character in "Snow White and the Huntsman" as more Cersei, but Hedley brings more of a toned down element to it that I think hits the right note for TV, just as Riggs did with the QOT.

So far, so good, because you can't have everything.

[Ran]

George has issues with some readers creating a Cat who isn't in the novels. He has no issues with how he wrote Catelyn, and Vanessa Taylor's scene is not, I assure you, something he mandated or asked for.

[PatrickStormborn]

Honestly one moment of weakness is 17 years is not half a worrying as a lot of the changes they made to Catelyn or the past two seasons. Yes, the legitimasing being seen as a viable option in the show is going a bit far but blaming herself isn't ,she DID send him to the Wall when he could otherwise be at Bran or Robbs side, protecting them from Theon.

If anything I'm more upset about the fact that Catelyn and Robb STILL aren't aware of Bran and Rickon's perceived fate and probably never will be. They just think they've gone missing, which is exactly what happened. Other then that, this episode is quite a bit better then 1 due to it actually being able to cover a bit of grounddue to it's narrowed focus.

When exactly did Catelyn send Jon to the Wall? As far as I can remember (and the text supports me), Jon told Benjen that he wanted to join the Night's Watch before Ned even decided to go South.

[Alia of the knife]

George has issues with some readers creating a Cat who isn't in the novels. He has no issues with how he wrote Catelyn, and Vanessa Taylor's scene is not, I assure you, something he mandated or asked for.

Well, if thats the case, then that puts her portrayal in a different light then.

She pulled if off well in terms of her craft, but if that is something Martin might not have liked, it doesn't seem fair to him.

[DurararaFTW]

When exactly did Catelyn send Jon to the Wall? As far as I can remember (and the text supports me), Jon told Benjen that he wanted to join the Night's Watch before Ned even decided to go South.

And later Jon admitted to Tyrion he had no idea what coming to the Wall meant for him. And what Jon said to Benjen was "Father will let me if you ask him". It was up to Ned, and he was convinced to do so by Cat.

[Ran]

GRRM has said there are choices the show makes that he wouldn't make, and there are characters on the show who are quite different from the novels. He really hasn't got much say on these matters. They've been rewriting Catelyn since the first season, so I'm guessing he's at peace with the notion that they're doing their own thing with her.