Most Precise ASOIAF Timeline in Existence

[ColdhandStark]

You have Davos leaving White Harbor before Stannis takes Deepwood. Yet Glover says it has been taken by Stannis in Davos last chapter.

[naik2902]

did GRRM ever told about how many number of months and days in a year in westeros? any info ?

[Dr. Pepper]

did GRRM ever told about how many number of months and days in a year in westeros? any info ?

Well, he told it in the text, in a very roundabout way. The year is roughly the same as our own. This is how people are able to come up with timelines like the one in the OP.

But he was also asked in interviews.

SSM

What is the cycle of a year? Why do they count years when seasons are strange?

Twelve moon tuns to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros. Seasons do not come into it.

I'm pretty sure there are other SSM where he confirms what's already in the text, but I figure this one should be enough.

[greensleeves]

....

...and yet seasons are a byproduct of the solar cycle and thus directly connected to our 'years'.

Oh well.

A lunar calendar should be consistent though.

[Waylin Stark]

Why do you say that? What events do you think should be close to the end of the year?

No, it's because 300 AL starts a little after halfway through ASoS. Then there's the second half of ASoS, entire AFfC and ADwD, basically the entire 2nd half of ASoIaF, but it's all been through in one year.

[PrivateMajor]

Is there somewhere permanent that this might be placed here? I'm not familiar with this forum very much, but it looks like this will be a resource people might want to reference in the future.

[The Lost Lord]

Hi, I haven't been around here in a while, but I post elsewhere as feldman10 and I did lots of the work for this timeline. There will undoubtedly be errors, so please try to point them out and help fix it. But let me explain some of the changes we made from the previous version:

Yeah, that's fair enough. I think the three most problematic characters are Arya, Sam and Daenerys.

The previous version of this timeline had the following big changes to what we'd expect from a straightforward reading of the books: (1) Late ASOS events for Sansa and Jon were moved several months after Tywin's death, I assume because of travel time. (2) Dany was said to have conquered Slaver's Bay before the Battle of the Blackwater. (3) Arya and Sam were much, much ahead of everyone else, going into the year 301.

I found that none of these held up:

• Cersei knows that Lysa is dead at Tywin's funeral, so the Sansa ASOS material can't be that late.
  
• King's Landing knows Stannis is at the Wall by AFFC Jaime 2, so that material can't be too late either.
  
• Dany's conquest of Slaver's Bay being so early seemed impossible -- because Barristan has to make the journey from Pentos to Qarth, and he says that "When we set sail from Pentos there were four kings in the land" -- meaning he was in Pentos when Stannis declared.
  
• And the problem with Arya/Sam is the movement of the Redwyne fleet. When Sam reaches Oldtown there is no word that the fleet is on its way and no word of Cersei's troubles in King's Landing, so it doesn't really make sense that he's months ahead of everyone else.
  

So I ended up splitting the difference with a lot of these. I gave Tyrion a somewhat longer stay in the black cells (weeks instead of a couple days) to give Sansa and Stannis more time to make their ship journeys, but also moved up the action in both of those plotlines a bit. I moved Dany's conquest of Slaver's Bay out of ACOK but into early ASOS, and started Dany's ADWD material in mid-ASOS (to give time for the news of Meereen's fall to reach Pentos by the time Tyrion gets there).

The fact that the Arya stuff was so late in the original timeline confused me a bit. I searched the old threads but I couldn't find a clear explanation of why. I assume it's based on the "serve three days of every thirty in the House of Black and White" stuff, but when I reread the text it did not suggest at all to me that she was months ahead. If anyone would like to explain why this is the case, please do. But for the time being I have her synced with the snow falling in the Riverlands, which seems to be new information for her in ADWD Arya 1.

You have Davos leaving White Harbor before Stannis takes Deepwood. Yet Glover says it has been taken by Stannis in Davos last chapter.

This is a good point, I'll try to fix this. This section was very difficult to sync because Wylis Manderly must go from Harrenhal to White Harbor, and then Manderly must get over to Barrowton with his plodding train in time for Theon 3, where the news of Deepwood Motte's fall still seems relative recent.

Another concern 300 Arya 1/22 and 1/23. Arya was at that village for a fortnight, yet they didn't hear about Lysa's death? Is that possible?

This probably needs to be clarified. I'd have to go back to the original text, but the 1/22 date should refer to her leaving the Mountains of the Moon, not arriving there. Which would make her leave before Lysa's death.

I think the problem might be that Sansa's timeline is too compressed. We know Sansa leaves King's Landing very late on 1/1 + sea voyage to Fingers for longer than expected (ship gets knocked off course, I think a couple guys die)+ 8 days waiting for Lysa + leave next day, journey to Eyrie with at least one night @ Gates of Moon + unknown time spent at Eyrie (LF frequently gone, has been gone for four days) = 1/23... it just seems a bit too tight for me.

Also, Little Finger later uses the excuse that Marillion killed Lysa because she told him she was pregnant with LF's child. It should take *at least* a couple weeks for her to know that. So in order for that to be a believable excuse, it seems like Lysa's murder should have taken place at least a few weeks after the wedding.

These are good points. I'll see what I can do. But as I mentioned above, the previous version of the timeline had this Sansa stuff months after Tywin's funeral -- but in AFFC Cersei 2 (Tywin's funeral) Cersei knows that Lysa is dead. I stretched out Tyrion's stay in the black cells a bit and maybe can add a little more, but it doesn't seem right to have him down there for months.

[Faint]

Cersei knows that Lysa is dead at Tywin's funeral, so the Sansa ASOS material can't be that late.

I have no issue with syncing Sansa's timeline to Cersei's using this information. I think it fair to say that Cersei 2 from A Feast for Crows takes place several weeks after the last Sansa chapter from A Storm of Swords. This does bring up an important issue though: Could it be that Tyrion was in those cells for a lot longer than we imagined?

King's Landing knows Stannis is at the Wall by AFFC Jaime 2, so that material can't be too late either.

I have no problem with this sync either. Sure, the travel time of Stannis' ships are somewhat implausible but at least with Melisandre there is a supernatural explanation to paper over any qualms about it.

Dany's conquest of Slaver's Bay being so early seemed impossible -- because Barristan has to make the journey from Pentos to Qarth, and he says that "When we set sail from Pentos there were four kings in the land" -- meaning he was in Pentos when Stannis declared.

I don't seem to remember why it was thought that the Battle of Blackwater and Daenerys' conquest of Slavery's Bay happened almost concurrently. What was the reasoning used before?

And the problem with Arya/Sam is the movement of the Redwyne fleet. When Sam reaches Oldtown there is no word that the fleet is on its way and no word of Cersei's troubles in King's Landing, so it doesn't really make sense that he's months ahead of everyone else.

See, I dispute the reasoning here. We have no idea, even now, about when or if the Redwyne fleet has arrived. More importantly, Sam barely talked to anybody when he got to Oldtown. He is not a good barometer to tell whether certain events have or have not happened across the continent.

As for Arya, I have no problem syncing her timeline to Jaime's when it begins to snow in the Riverlands, although, as I have stated before, that really contradicts a lot of information in her own chapters. I am prepared to accept the author simply screwed up with her, aided by having to ditch the five-year gap.

[The Lost Lord]

I have no issue with syncing Sansa's timeline to Cersei's using this information. I think it fair to say that Cersei 2 from A Feast for Crows takes place several weeks after the last Sansa chapter from A Storm of Swords. This does bring up an important issue though: Could it be that Tyrion was in those cells for a lot longer than we imagined?

I did extend Tyrion's black cell stay from a few days to about two weeks, but interesting point, maybe it should be extended further. There are some indications that some time has passed -- Jaime thinks that Gregor's screams have been heard "day and night," Tyrion's voice has grown "hoarse from disuse." In Dorne, at least a fortnight passes between news of Oberyn's death and Tywin's death. I'll try this out, because it would help with some funkiness with the Wall hearing of Tywin's death a month after it happened, and a jump of over a month in King's Landing between Cersei 3 and Cersei 4 that always felt a bit long.

I don't seem to remember why it was thought that the Battle of Blackwater and Daenerys' conquest of Slavery's Bay happened almost concurrently. What was the reasoning used before?

I could not find an explanation, but I'd assume it has to do with the AFFC Prologue, where Tywin is still thought to be alive, but news of Dany in Meereen has already reached Oldtown. The way I have it I think this is still plausible -- Dany takes Meereen 12/1/99, the AFFC Prologue is nearly two months later -- but I admit it's tighter. Maybe the change above of moving Tywin's death later would help with that.

See, I dispute the reasoning here. We have no idea, even now, about when or if the Redwyne fleet has arrived. More importantly, Sam barely talked to anybody when he got to Oldtown. He is not a good barometer to tell whether certain events have or have not happened across the continent.

I disagree because the person Sam did talk to -- the captain of the Huntress, in charge of inspecting incoming ships because of the ironborn threat, tells him the following: "Without Lord Redwyne’s fleet, we lack the ships to come to grips with them… the best we can do is guard the sound and wait for the bitch queen in King’s Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash.” Given that ravens travel much faster than ships, and given that Oldtown is very nervous and desperate for this news, I definitely think Oldtown would know that the Redwyne fleet had left Dragonstone and was on its way. Even Jon, up at the Wall, hears that the Redwyne fleet is moving through the Stepstones (the iron banker tells him). The most recent info we have of the fleet is that they're south of Dorne (mentioned in Kevan's epilogue and TWOW Arianne I). Also, and admittedly this is purely speculative, but I'm very skeptical this chapter is later than the rest of the action because it's when Marwyn leaves -- won't he make it to Dany sometime soon?

As for Arya, I have no problem syncing her timeline to Jaime's when it begins to snow in the Riverlands, although, as I have stated before, that really contradicts a lot of information in her own chapters. I am prepared to accept the author simply screwed up with her, aided by having to ditch the five-year gap.

Do you recall, or do you know where I could find, an explanation of why Arya's timeline was thought to be so far ahead? I looked through lots of the old threads but couldn't find it. I assume it has something to do with "serve 3 days out of every 30 in the House of Black and White," but when I read her chapters, I couldn't read any clear time jumps from them.

[Lord Godric]

This is awesome but, months and days? Does that really fit?

[lady m]

Do you recall, or do you know where I could find, an explanation of why Arya's timeline was thought to be so far ahead? I looked through lots of the old threads but couldn't find it. I assume it has something to do with "serve 3 days out of every 30 in the House of Black and White," but when I read her chapters, I couldn't read any clear time jumps from them.

There's a good deal of discussion in this thread, starting at the post I'm linking to about Arya's timeline, and how far ahead she is from everyone else. Most of the discussion on timeline is in the first few pages.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/83171-so-whats-the-point-of-arya-pov-chapters/#entry4233779

Wonderful job on the timeline itself.

[bent branch]

There's a good deal of discussion in this thread, starting at the post I'm linking to about Arya's timeline, and how far ahead she is from everyone else. Most of the discussion on timeline is in the first few pages.

http://asoiaf.wester...s/#entry4233779

Wonderful job on the timeline itself.

Actually, I interpreted that section of text differently. I did not read it to mean that they had left her blind for six months. I read it to mean that they would have waited another six months to make her blind if she had not killed the singer.

Great job on the timeline to those of you who worked on it. I'm not sure whether I should thank you or curse you though. I had this crackpot idea that I was able to let go because I thought it wouldn't work with the timeline. This timeline shows my weird idea is completely possible.

[PrivateMajor]

Great job on the timeline to those of you who worked on it.

User: The Lost Lord did perhaps 98% of the work on it. I get about 1% for getting the idea in front of him and helping set up the new version of the excel document organizationally, and a few others chimed in to help with some fact checking....so they get about 1% too.

[Civfan]

This is awesome. I'm sure some things aren't perfect but it doesn't have to be. :)

It's interesting if you compare it to the order of the actual chapters, or the scenes in the show.

[theMountainGoat]

As someone working on my own timeline spreadsheet I can appreciate the amount of work that has gone into this - good work PrivateMajor and The Lost Lord.

By the way - I'm the guy that created the spreadsheet with all the distances by road, raven and the ship speed calculator included in your spreadsheet. Nice to see it being put to good use.

I started work on my timeline spreadsheet a little over two years ago but I've been caught up in other projects (like running TitanCon, mapping Westeros and other stuff) and haven't been able to do as much work on it as I would have liked. My spreadsheet is a little bit more complex than yours with every journey, news and event on a separate line and each year on a separate sheet. Year 298 is about 500 lines long, year 299 is close to 2000 lines long, I'm still working on years 300 and 301 so its difficult to say how long they will end up being. I have a long way to go with my work and unfortunately I'm not ready to share it online yet (it's too messy with notes that only make sense to me). Hopefully at some point in the future I will find the time to finish and I can post it online.

Regarding Tyrion's journey from Castle Black to Winterfell and on to the Crossroads Inn. The problem here is that events in King's Landing are tied to this by the news of Bran waking up. However, I believe that this is wrong. News is sent to Jon Snow at Castle Black and we assume that the news is also sent to King's Landing at the same time, but I believe the raven with that news does NOT reach King's Landing. There is a specific quote in AGOT Bran IV (page 239 in paperback), something Maester Luwin says to Bran "Many a mile and many a hawk". Therefore it seems likely that the raven they sent is taken down by a hawk and never arrives.

Then when Ned arrives in King's Landing several days pass (about 12 by my count) before the news of Bran waking up arrives. I believe that is exactly the right length of time for a raven to be sent from King's Landing to Winterfell (presumably Ned would have sent a letter to say they had arrived) and for a raven to fly back again with a reply that contains the news about Bran waking up. This is speculative, there is no quote to support my theory but it does fit the timeline and makes sense. The quote for news arrival is AGOT Eddard V (255).

Once you disconnect those events you'll see that everything in King's Landing moves further down the timeline while events in Winterfell & Castle Black move up a little meaning Tyrion's journey can actually be made at a reasonable pace, as can Ned's journey with the Royal Party from Winterfell to King's Landing. This does mean that Catelyn spends about five weeks hanging out in Littlefinger's brothel in King's Landing waiting for Ned to arrive, but I think this is a better explanation than all those journeys up and down the Kings Road being lightning fast. I mean they are still a bit too fast simply because there is so much to fit in over the course of that year between Joffrey's birthdays, but the journeys are not so fast that you'd be hard pressed to do it in a car let alone horseback.

On my timeline I have Tyrion and Yoren departing Castle Black 31 days before Ned even arrives in King's Landing.

The only potential problem with my theory is that Bran dreams of Sansa crying over the death of Lady, but this could be a green dream of a future event. It doesn't necessarily have to be something that takes place at exactly the same time. That's the handy thing about green dreams, could be past, present or future, they don't have to sync up with the timeline.

Regarding birthdays you've got the same problem many others have found with Jon and Robb's birthdays. Jon's takes place earlier in the year than Robb's but this makes no sense because Catelyn believes that Ned was unfaithful to her AFTER they were married. Robb was definitely conceived on their wedding night and therefore Jon Snow's birthday (or at least the date they celebrate his birthday, it may not be his correct birth date) must be later in the year than Robb's. Otherwise how could Catelyn have believed the lie if Jon's birthday is first.

This is a really tricky timeline problem to resolve because that first year is so tight there is no room to move. But there is some flexibility during ACOK and I have been experimenting with speeding some journeys up and compressing the early part of that year which has the effect of moving Robb's birthday in year 299 up the timeline and moving Jon's birthday in 298 down the timeline. They are still too close together for my liking but I am getting closer to having them the right way around without causing other more significant timeline problems.

[dreamprfct]

Shouldn't the part about Ned warning Cersei be 11/11 and not 11/1? probably just a typo but I couldn't make the chane.

[History of Westeros]

Absolutely fantastic, great job guys.

This will most certainly get added to the list of sources we use for podcast research.

[Young Lion]

I just saw this timeline with a little more attention and it is really amazing, a monster. Congratulations to whoever did it.

For now, I only checked the first entrances in the timeline, and I noticed that it's said that the Battle of the Whispering Wood and Jaime's subsequent capture took place in very early 299. I always and still do believe it happened in very late 298, before or around the same time of Ned's execution. Now, I know we shouldn't use the order of the chapters in the books to elaborate a chronology, because sometimes, for example, the events of chapter A take place after chapter B, even though chapter A is presented first, but I think it's still worth to mention that Jaime's capture happened before Ned's death in the book. In the TV series, Jaime is also captured before Ned's death.

And there is a passage in A Clash of Kings where Robb said he would have traded Jaime for Ned. Now, this clarifies nothing in reality, because it can go both ways: he could have meant that he would be able to trade Jaime for Ned if he captured Jaime before Ned's death or he could have said that he might trade them if he had the time to negotiate with the Lannisters, so he might had capture him just before Ned's death but it was already too late to send word to King's Landing of it.

I consider the latter the correct one for me, especially because the TV series depicted it in that exact same way. Jaime's capture and Ned's death occurred in the same episode, with Jaime being captured just before Ned's death. So even though Robb technically captured Jaime before his father's death, he never had the time to propose a trade.

This is completely minor though, just trivial, but I for some reason just had to post it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I just finished the Dunk & Egg books x2 and I'm about to start ASOIAF x5. I plan on reading the chapters in the order of your spreadsheet. Thanks!

[freamon]

I just finished the Dunk & Egg books x2 and I'm about to start ASOIAF x5. I plan on reading the chapters in the order of your spreadsheet. Thanks!

This. Especially useful for rereading AFFC and ADWD.

Amazing job.