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AleksandrSnow

Ned Stark is alive? Spoilers for all 5 books.

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Ok, so assuming that Varys is the immensely powerful conspirator that he seems to be at the end of Dance of Dragons, who else has he roped into this game?

He pulled Tyrion into it, Jon Connington as well, Ser Barristan most likely, Illyrio has always helped him, perhaps Littlefinger as well, but what if Ned Stark is still alive and helping him?

First off, when Ned ‘dies,’ it’s from Arya’s POV, and she claims that Ned is so beat up that he barely looks alive even before his death. He was clearly injured, but (in the books) a broken leg, even if left untreated, doesn’t fuck up your face too much.

Second, Sansa claims that his head above Maegor’s Holdfast looks weirdly unlike her Father, and she believes it’s due to the tarring process, and well, decapitation.

Thirdly, Lady Catelyn says that Ned’s bones look as if to be from a smaller man than Ned, and most people (myself included) took this as her grief showing her that everyone looks smaller as a pile of bones, but what if she was being literal.

What if it wasn’t Ned?

I have believed that Syrio Forel was/is a Faceless Man ever since Arya met Jaqen and he said he was from Braavos. For a time, I thought Jaqen was Syrio, but after reading Feast I changed my mind, because I now believe that Jaqen was the Alchemist from the prologue and now the new Pate that Samwell Tarly meets in Oldtown. I think Varys has a special relationship with the Faceless Men from his time in the Free Cities.

So, Varys happens upon a severly wounded Syrio in the Red Keep after he helps Arya escape. Varys knows that Ned could help him in the long run, and asks Syrio if he could take Ned’s place, because A. Varys knows Joffery will kill Ned, or B. Syrio would be sent to the Wall and either die en route or when he arrives. Syrio knows he is going to die and agrees to help Varys. Varys then swaps the Ned’s under the Red Keep, using the same passage that he uses to get Tyrion out. He sends Ned to the Free Cities, OR and this is my prediction, Ned is somewhere in Westeros that know one, and I mean no one, goes to or even thinks about. Greywater Watch. Howland Reed is an old friend of Ned’s and would absolutely consent to hiding Ned and nursing him back to health.

Part A. in which Ned goes to the Free Cities, he goes to all of them, traveling as a page/coin maester/advisor/envoy of Illyrio, visiting people who would have no knowledge of who he is, and secretly asking for their help in Varys and Illyrio’s master plan.

Part B. Ned goes to Greywater Watch (honestly this one seems way more likely and fits into many other theories I have), smuggled in as the events of Clash of Kings are beginning. He is nursed back to health by his old war buddy Howland Reed, and there he is kept hidden, presumably only meeting a few of Howland Reed’s inner circle, including his children. When Jojen has a green dream pertaining to Bran, he has no clue what to make of it, but when he describes Winterfell, a place he has probably never seen before, and Bran, someone he has never met, Howland takes him to Ned, and Ned tells him everything he must do. Take Bran to the Wall, where he will meet Coldhands, and he even tells him how to get to Winterfell, how to stay in Winterfell, how to get Bran to trust him, where to take Bran in case of emergency, and anything else he might need to know.

This also brings into play my theory that Benjen Stark, First Ranger, is actually Coldhands, and he knew that’s what would become of himself. He confided in Ned at Winterfell when Robert came to promote him to Hand that Bran was a Warg and Greenseer, and when the time was right, would needed to be taken to him North of the Wall. Benjen knew that he would be marching to his fate as Coldhands after he returned to the Night’s Watch, and it’s also the only reason Ned allowed Jon to take the black that early. Ned and Benjen knew he was going to ‘die’ and there must always be a Stark on the Wall.

So, the theory that Ned is still alive brings into another theory as well. Why does Varys want the Targeryen’s to rule so badly, if he wants to serve the realm most of all? What does Ned being alive have to do with anything?

Well, my belief that Benjen is Coldhands, and has been secretly in contact with the Children of the Forest for years, and has known that the White Walkers are returning, and that in the next winter, they would march on the Wall. Varys, clearly having spies everywhere, meets with Benjen, presumably around the same time that he is setting plans in motion. So let’s say, 10 years before GoT. Varys asks him what is happening beyond the Wall, because he knows of Benjen, he knows of the Stark clan, and he knows that if anything is happening beyond, Benjen would know.

So Varys is bringing in a resurgent clan of Targareyn’s, whether Daenerys was ever part of it is unknown, so that the Three-Headed Dragon would be on the Iron Throne when the White Walkers march South. However, in the epilogue of Dance, Varys tell Ser Kevan that not everything has gone according to plan, but it’s still coming together as much as possible at this point.

ALL of this, and I mean all of it, also explains where Osha and Rickon are. I believe they’re at Greywater Watch, I believe that Varys somehow got a message to them as they made their way to White Harbor, telling them it was unsafe and they should make their way to Greywater Watch, maybe even sending someone from the Neck to guide them there, so they did not pass through Moat Caitlin, and the Ironborn holding it.

So, Davos, on his way to Greywater Watch, will find Osha and Rickon (maybe) and possibly Ned Stark? Hiding out this whole time?

(Honestly there could be some plot holes in this don’t rip me apart please I just finished Dance of Dragons last night)

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Yes, and thousands that have seen Ned dying, including those that were immediately there like Joffrey, Cersei, Janos Slynt... They were all mistaken, right?

And, welcome to the forums

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I am wondering what if the reason we have never seen Howland Reed is because he did a switch with Ned for Howland and Ned maybe did a Mance and Rattleshirt and Ned is Howland Reed. I can see Howland giving up his life for Ned. Maybe he grew tired and Sent His children to find Bran so Jojen could not forsee his dad giving up his life. Maybe just maybe Ned was the one who sent Jojen and Meera and Howland Reed is dead. I can see them killing a person we never saw to have a big reveal at the end. It may seem cruel for Ned to let those his family suffer but also I think his word too Lyanna was bigger then himself maybe.

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Syrio is a FM hired to protect the Stark, knock out Trant, then Switch with Ned when he will be killed. Ned is now living his ideal live with his lover ashara dayne at Lys.

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First and foremost, welcome to the forum :D

As for theory - I believe it a very improbable one. Even if Varys did switch Ned in dungeons (and I don't think he did) and smuggled him out of city, what possible reason would Ned have for hiding for year and a half or two (the time which passed since his "death"). Why wouldn't he simply go North and reveal himself to his family? Why would he let them believe he is dead? Why would he let Robb lead an army? In short, why would he avoid being with his family (something he loves) and why would be avoid his duty as ruler of the North (duty is something Ned never avoids) ?

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Eddard Stark alive! :lmao:

tbh it is highly unlikely

and welcome to the forums :)

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Welcome to the forum.

Eddard is my second favourite character, I see him as the most honourable character and the bravest. But he's dead. He's not coming back. There were times when I read up on these types of theories about Ned being alive, but you have to face the fact that he's not coming back. His death triggers so many important things through out the books, and it would seem a waste if Robb had risen in rebellion, declared himself King in the North and gotten himself killed all for nothing. And I don't think Ned would have stayed in Greywater Watch if he got word of Bran's and Rickon's death and Robb's and Catelyn's death. He wouldn't have stayed there when he got the news.

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Ned is Septa Lemore who is a secret Targaryen and also The Prince That Was Promised and Quaithe.

Honestly, though, Ned is dead as a doorknob. 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Ned is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't put 'im on the spike 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-EDDARD!!

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Actually, what I think is that Syrio was a FM or taken out and replaced by one.

Ned Stark sends someone to hire someone to teach his daughter how to fight.

"You gotta go to Syrio Forel, over at the Busty Boar" says some random dude when asked (imaginary inn, but you get the idea).

The FM goes to find Syrio, kills and becomes him, "Syrio" gets to be close to the Hand of the King in order to sow some mischief.

Ned Stark is branded a traitor and soon "Syrio" finds himself fighting ser Meryn Trant.

But wait, that's even better! Who is close to the King and Queen and has a legitimate reason to hang around them?

A man of the Kingsguard!

Who sent him? Varys, of course. Why? Varys has a thing for Targaryens and would enjoy to see Dany (or even Aegon) return to ascend to the Iron Throne.

What would anybody gain from keeping Ned Stark alive? All in all, everything that happened thanks to his death (Robb mobilizing, Theon betraying, Ramsay Bolton going nutso and then some) would be rendered moot!

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My biggest problem with this theory is that Sean Bean got his head cut off in the show, but I do like this theory other than that one major hole in it.

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My biggest problem with this theory is that Sean Bean got his head cut off in the show, but I do like this theory other than that one major hole in it.

And Sean Bean's a two-legged spoiler. Always dying in films.

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And Sean Bean's a two-legged spoiler. Always dying in films.

he came back to life in Missing

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he came back to life in Missing

But did he die first?

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And Sean Bean's a two-legged spoiler. Always dying in films.

Yup, and someone made and effort to show all these numerous deaths in 4 minute long video-clip:

Although I've heard of one movie adaptation (can't remember the name, though), where character portrayed by Sean Bean survived in the movie, altough he was killed in the original story. Everyone was shocked :shocked:

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Ned is Septa Lemore who is a secret Targaryen and also The Prince That Was Promised and Quaithe.

Honestly, though, Ned is dead as a doorknob. 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Ned is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't put 'im on the spike 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-EDDARD!!

:lmao: Where's the 'like' button?

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Always good to see that the "Ned Lives On" threads continue to live on.

Keep Nedding and carry on.

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Ned's dead, baby.

Anyway, if Ned was alive, I find it hard to believe he could've sit back and let his eldest son neglect his home territory for glory and vengeance in the south, letting him fuck up and do nothing after the Red Wedding and the Bolton takeover of Winterfell.

But he's such a good dude among loads of assholes that people can't deny that we wish him alive, especially for the children's sake.

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Ok, so assuming that Varys is the immensely powerful conspirator that he seems to be at the end of Dance of Dragons, who else has he roped into this game?

He pulled Tyrion into it, Jon Connington as well, Ser Barristan most likely, Illyrio has always helped him, perhaps Littlefinger as well, but what if Ned Stark is still alive and helping him?

First off, when Ned ‘dies,’ it’s from Arya’s POV, and she claims that Ned is so beat up that he barely looks alive even before his death. He was clearly injured, but (in the books) a broken leg, even if left untreated, doesn’t fuck up your face too much.

Second, Sansa claims that his head above Maegor’s Holdfast looks weirdly unlike her Father, and she believes it’s due to the tarring process, and well, decapitation.

Thirdly, Lady Catelyn says that Ned’s bones look as if to be from a smaller man than Ned, and most people (myself included) took this as her grief showing her that everyone looks smaller as a pile of bones, but what if she was being literal.

What if it wasn’t Ned?

I have believed that Syrio Forel was/is a Faceless Man ever since Arya met Jaqen and he said he was from Braavos. For a time, I thought Jaqen was Syrio, but after reading Feast I changed my mind, because I now believe that Jaqen was the Alchemist from the prologue and now the new Pate that Samwell Tarly meets in Oldtown. I think Varys has a special relationship with the Faceless Men from his time in the Free Cities.

So, Varys happens upon a severly wounded Syrio in the Red Keep after he helps Arya escape. Varys knows that Ned could help him in the long run, and asks Syrio if he could take Ned’s place, because A. Varys knows Joffery will kill Ned, or B. Syrio would be sent to the Wall and either die en route or when he arrives. Syrio knows he is going to die and agrees to help Varys. Varys then swaps the Ned’s under the Red Keep, using the same passage that he uses to get Tyrion out. He sends Ned to the Free Cities, OR and this is my prediction, Ned is somewhere in Westeros that know one, and I mean no one, goes to or even thinks about. Greywater Watch. Howland Reed is an old friend of Ned’s and would absolutely consent to hiding Ned and nursing him back to health.

Part A. in which Ned goes to the Free Cities, he goes to all of them, traveling as a page/coin maester/advisor/envoy of Illyrio, visiting people who would have no knowledge of who he is, and secretly asking for their help in Varys and Illyrio’s master plan.

Part B. Ned goes to Greywater Watch (honestly this one seems way more likely and fits into many other theories I have), smuggled in as the events of Clash of Kings are beginning. He is nursed back to health by his old war buddy Howland Reed, and there he is kept hidden, presumably only meeting a few of Howland Reed’s inner circle, including his children. When Jojen has a green dream pertaining to Bran, he has no clue what to make of it, but when he describes Winterfell, a place he has probably never seen before, and Bran, someone he has never met, Howland takes him to Ned, and Ned tells him everything he must do. Take Bran to the Wall, where he will meet Coldhands, and he even tells him how to get to Winterfell, how to stay in Winterfell, how to get Bran to trust him, where to take Bran in case of emergency, and anything else he might need to know.

This also brings into play my theory that Benjen Stark, First Ranger, is actually Coldhands, and he knew that’s what would become of himself. He confided in Ned at Winterfell when Robert came to promote him to Hand that Bran was a Warg and Greenseer, and when the time was right, would needed to be taken to him North of the Wall. Benjen knew that he would be marching to his fate as Coldhands after he returned to the Night’s Watch, and it’s also the only reason Ned allowed Jon to take the black that early. Ned and Benjen knew he was going to ‘die’ and there must always be a Stark on the Wall.

So, the theory that Ned is still alive brings into another theory as well. Why does Varys want the Targeryen’s to rule so badly, if he wants to serve the realm most of all? What does Ned being alive have to do with anything?

Well, my belief that Benjen is Coldhands, and has been secretly in contact with the Children of the Forest for years, and has known that the White Walkers are returning, and that in the next winter, they would march on the Wall. Varys, clearly having spies everywhere, meets with Benjen, presumably around the same time that he is setting plans in motion. So let’s say, 10 years before GoT. Varys asks him what is happening beyond the Wall, because he knows of Benjen, he knows of the Stark clan, and he knows that if anything is happening beyond, Benjen would know.

So Varys is bringing in a resurgent clan of Targareyn’s, whether Daenerys was ever part of it is unknown, so that the Three-Headed Dragon would be on the Iron Throne when the White Walkers march South. However, in the epilogue of Dance, Varys tell Ser Kevan that not everything has gone according to plan, but it’s still coming together as much as possible at this point.

ALL of this, and I mean all of it, also explains where Osha and Rickon are. I believe they’re at Greywater Watch, I believe that Varys somehow got a message to them as they made their way to White Harbor, telling them it was unsafe and they should make their way to Greywater Watch, maybe even sending someone from the Neck to guide them there, so they did not pass through Moat Caitlin, and the Ironborn holding it.

So, Davos, on his way to Greywater Watch, will find Osha and Rickon (maybe) and possibly Ned Stark? Hiding out this whole time?

(Honestly there could be some plot holes in this don’t rip me apart please I just finished Dance of Dragons last night)

That's a pretty long joke to type up.

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