If the Starks destroy the Boltons and Freys, will you consider the Starks and Lannisters even?

[Lointain]

Yeah, I mean look at it from the viewpoint of the Northern Lords-would you ever be willing to accept House Frayed Man as your liege?!?

Especially knowing the future heir, was a guy who hunted people down for sport?!?

I think that Roose planned from the begining to get a new heir from the marriage with Walda and let an "unfortunate mortal acident" happen to his Bastard, afterall the men of Ramsay are really the men of Roose, and they will, very likely, obey any order of Lord Bolton.

Has for the survival of the Bolton, if Roose survive the attack of Stannis and flees to the Dreadfort, he can muster his forces, wait and play another cards:

Help from the Iron Throne.

Declare his fealty to Aegon, if the Targaryen (?) grows strong.

Tke notice that Daenerys arrived at Westeros (with dragons, Unsullied, merceneries, etc.) and declare fealty to her, pointing the "good job" he already did: all the harm he did to the Starks.

[Winnief]

The Starks destroying the Boltons and Freys?

To me it seems like Stannis is doing all the work for them.

And Manderly.

And the damage they're doing to themselves...

Re-Roose getting in with Daenerys, by proclaiming himself a Stark killer-that will only be effective if Dany continues to stay in denial about her father, AND never learns the truth about Jon's parentage. If/when it comes out that Ned effectively protected and adopted a Targaryen heir all those years, Dany's opinion of him and the whole family will make a dramatic shift.

[Olligarchy]

I'll just say this: Given the War of the Roses inspiration for the books I wouldn't be surprised if both the Starks and the Lannisters were gone by the end of the books completely with someone else entirely having come in to take the reins of power. Mores the pity since the Stark-Lannister rivalry is by FAR more interesting than any amount of Dragons or White Walkers.

[Winnief]

Well given that the original title for ADoS was going to be "A Time for Wolves," I imagine that at least some of the Starks will survive and retake WF and the North...the Lannister's though-that's a whole other question. Cersei might have doomed them all...

Mores the pity since the Stark-Lannister rivalry is by FAR more interesting than any amount of Dragons or White Walkers.

Well, the latter two are bigger problems for Westeros in general-but yeah Starks vs. Lannister's is what got fans hooked on the series.

Though, sometimes, I wonder whether there can be any chance of peace. Not with Cersei of course, but Jaime might be able to do something to redeem himself to the Starks, (like possibly helping Sansa) and Tyrion was never their enemy to begin with. I don't know if she'll stay married to him, but I imagine, Sansa would plead mercy for Tyrion, (she did pray for him as well during the BoB.) So the two households, (or their survivors) might be able to reconcile by the end of the series-that would be a true dream for spring.

[Frey Pie]

I don't want the Freys extinguished. Bring back Edmure and have RR for the Tullys-one of the few lords who deserves the name. Have Olyvar (Robbs squire) take over the Twins once he comes of age.

Screw the Boltons though. Theon will do for Ramsay anyway.

Cersei is a goner anyway. Not bothered what happens to Tyrion but I have a soft spot for Jaime since he lost his hand. Reduce the powers of the Lannisters, possibly leave them the Rock but take away their title of Warden

[robert_was_the_true_steel]

I don't see how killing the frey's and bolton's makes them even with the lannisters. But i also don't think they really need to be even. To live happily ever after would be a good revenge

This. I would just like to see the Starks back in a rebuilt Winterfell by the end of the series.

[~DarkHorse~]

The Starks probably won't even get the chance at destroying the Lannister's, they'll do that to themselves.

Joffrey- ordered Ned's death but is already dead and not by a Starks hand. No vengeance for them there.

Tywin- orchestrated the Red Wedding and reforging of Ice, he was killed in a humiliating manner but not by a Stark. No vengeance there.

Cersei- Put Sansa through hell, responsible for Lady's death and various people who worked with the Starks (sansa's septa, Ned's men in the Throne room when tearing up that royal decree). However, she will be killed by the Valonqar which doesn't seem to be a Stark so no vengeance there, unless Sansa is that younger more beautiful Queen in the prophecy.

Jaime- crippled Bran and killed several of Ned's men but at least he's trying to make amends through Sansa. He is having a meeting with Lady Stoneheart so you never know?

Tyrion- Married Sansa but he did not agree to it and is responsible for the biggest Stark wrong doers death (Tywin) and believed to have killed Joffrey too. If he plays his cards right he should have no quarrel with the Starks.

Tommen and Myrcella- Are kids who have done nothing but carry the Lannister name. The Starks wouldn't kill them just for that...perhaps. Arya?

I think they won't really have the chance to destroy the Lannisters, also the Freys and Boltons far outweigh them now. Peace will be brought between them through Tyrion, most likely. He did befriend Jon and was kind to Sansa and Bran.

I'm not even sure the Starks will get their vengeance on their biggest enemies at all- Tywin (didn't happen), Joffrey (didn't happen), Roose (will probably be killed by Stannis).... Walder Frey (at this rate will probably be killed by one of his own family members). :bawl: I NEED STARK VENGEANCE! Please, GRRM!!

[Winnief]

I don't see how killing the frey's and bolton's makes them even with the lannisters. But i also don't think they really need to be even. To live happily ever after would be a good revenge

This. I would just like to see the Starks back in a rebuilt Winterfell by the end of the series.

Ned-"The Starks will endure."

That pretty much sums it up? No matter how hard things get for the wolves, even when they're scattered, they always come back...

As for the wrongdoers...well in this series they seem to have of ruining themselves.

[Lord Thornhart]

~DarkHorse~, this is why people love the 'Edd fetch me a black' moment so much. It's the only justice the Stark have gotten at all... in ten years.

[~DarkHorse~]

~DarkHorse~, this is why people love the 'Edd fetch me a black' moment so much. It's the only justice the Stark have gotten at all... in ten years.

So true! :crying:

When you think about it, they didn't even get their vengeance for the murder of Rickard and Brandon Stark. That was all Jaime but somehow, I don't think Ned was the type to go seeking vengeance on the Mad King (as in killing him) considering his reaction to Jaime the Kingslayer.

And Robert killed Rhaegar, 'avenging' Lyanna himself.

Dam it, I just want them to take a stand and say 'we're not taking this shit any more' then do some serious harm to those who have wronged them, making it clear they're not to be messed with and won't be trod on. They descend from the Kings of Winter and winter is harsh and vengeful! My fingers are still crossed...

[Winnief]

So true! :crying:

When you think about it, they didn't even get their vengeance for the murder of Rickard and Brandon Stark. That was all Jaime but somehow, I don't think Ned was the type to go seeking vengeance on the Mad King (as in killing him) considering his reaction to Jaime the Kingslayer.

And Robert killed Rhaegar, 'avenging' Lyanna himself.

Dam it, I just want them to take a stand and say 'we're not taking this shit any more' then do some serious harm to those who have wronged them, making it clear they're not to be messed with and won't be trod on. They descend from the Kings of Winter and winter is harsh and vengeful! My fingers are still crossed...

Well as understandable as it is to want the Starks to take vengeance, DarkHorse, maybe it's better they don't. Oberyn's thirst for revenge poisoned his life and in all likelihood his daughter's lives as well.

When you think about it, Ned certainly wasn't blood-thirsty or vindictive, and I think a number of his children take after him in that regard.

Robb went to war to protect his father, but he was never into indiscriminate blood letting-note how he handled the Karstacks killing the boys. Bran's a pretty peaceful type. Rickon may be fierce, having inherited his uncle Brandon's "Wolf nature". Arya is of course a little she wolf and VERY vengeful-but that seems to make her more Cat-LSH than her father doesn't it? Then there's Sansa, (and I'm starting to think that while she looks like Cat, personality wise she's more like Ned; dutiful, compassionate, a little too trusting and sometimes sees the world through rose-colored glasses,-but with a deep sense of noblesse oblige,) while hating the Lannister's hasn't been particularly hellbent on violent retribution...during the BoB she prayed for mercy for Tyrion and Sandor, and helped out Lancel. (She didn't notably pray for mercy for Cersei and Joffrey, though,-mercy has limits.) When hoping to escape to Highgarden, she thought of training her children to hate Lannister's but not to raise them for vengeance like the Sand Snakes, but more to protect them from making the same mistake she did in trusting a Lannister.

Of course Sansa, (despite not being a super assassin in training,) may yet play a role in the downfall of LF-and that would be a very satisfying act of retribution for us all. :devil:

That's not a House-but a onetime individual who everyone can agree needs to go down, and go down hard...

[~DarkHorse~]

Well as understandable as it is to want the Starks to take vengeance, DarkHorse, maybe it's better they don't. Oberyn's thirst for revenge poisoned his life and in all likelihood his daughter's lives as well.

When you think about it, Ned certainly wasn't blood-thirsty or vindictive, and I think a number of his children take after him in that regard.

Robb went to war to protect his father, but he was never into indiscriminate blood letting-note how he handled the Karstacks killing the boys. Bran's a pretty peaceful type. Rickon may be fierce, having inherited his uncle Brandon's "Wolf nature". Arya is of course a little she wolf and VERY vengeful-but that seems to make her more Cat-LSH than her father doesn't it? Then there's Sansa, (and I'm starting to think that while she looks like Cat, personality wise she's more like Ned; dutiful, compassionate, a little too trusting and sometimes sees the world through rose-colored glasses,-but with a deep sense of noblesse oblige,) while hating the Lannister's hasn't been particularly hellbent on violent retribution...during the BoB she prayed for mercy for Tyrion and Sandor, and helped out Lancel. (She didn't notably pray for mercy for Cersei and Joffrey, though,-mercy has limits.) When hoping to escape to Highgarden, she thought of training her children to hate Lannister's but not to raise them for vengeance like the Sand Snakes, but more to protect them from making the same mistake she did in trusting a Lannister.

Of course Sansa, (despite not being a super assassin in training,) may yet play a role in the downfall of LF-and that would be a very satisfying act of retribution for us all. :devil:

That's not a House-but a onetime individual who everyone can agree needs to go down, and go down hard...

So true! I agree with everything you said especially Sansa being more like Ned and Arya more like Cat, despite their appearances being the reverse.

And yes, LF needs to plunder into a massive failure, hopefully tripping into his grave in the process. I'm all for Sansa pushing him into it though. :D

[Winnief]

So true! I agree with everything you said especially Sansa being more like Ned and Arya more like Cat, despite their appearances being the reverse.

Oh, yeah, also as people noted a lot in the books, while Ned was a very good man, and great family guy, his composure was almost icy sometimes-he played things very close to the chest, and that is definitely Sansa as well. (As opposed to Cat and Arya who always wear their feelings on their sleeve for better or for worse.)

But Sansa, (by necessity,) is learning to be a politician in a way Ned never did, (great lord and a great fighter, but no insight into the Game,) while Sansa not learning soldiering, is learning politics. So we have the specter of a girl who captivates LF because of her physical resemblance to Cat, but spiritually is her father's daughter, and her father is the one LF directly betrayed, in a possible position to turn the tables.

Frankly, I would find that FAR more satisfying, (and poetic) than Arya using her FM tricks on the creep. :devil:

Though, on the topic of Arya, her re-uniting with Nymeria, in the Riverlands while disposing of some Frey's, (the guilty ones that is like Black Walder, Lame Lothar, and Edmure,) would be awesome.

[Pufferian]

Valonqar means "little brother".

C always equates it with Tyrion.

But as twins, C was the first born.

C's death is at J's hand.

It is known.

Please forgive if pointed out before.

This is a VERY long thread.

FWIW, Arya and her Dragon will be toasting the Towers of the Freys.

[Lost Time]

More than all, I want Ned's name cleared and for him to be vindicated. People think him a traitor who died a traitor's death. He needs to be redeemed which ultimately means all of the Lannister's garbage will come to light. That and a violent Cersei death (only after she looks upon the destruction of her family) will be enough for me. I used to think the same for Jaime, and I definitely won't shed a tear when he goes, but he's been growing on me for a bit. Funny how the redemptive Lannister is the closest thing to actual revenge a Stark might personally achieve (via Stoneheart).

And oh yeah, the Lannisters and Freys currently inhabiting the surrendered lands of the Lords who supported the Starks need to all gtfo and/or die. Genna Lannister in particular needs to go before she hires an assassin to kill Edmure.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

Is tommen paralyzed in this scenario and Cersei's throat cut and Jamie's head on a spike above the gates of Winterfell? Cuz thats about what I would say would make them even.

[Wisenan69]

Is tommen paralyzed in this scenario and Cersei's throat cut and Jamie's head on a spike above the gates of Winterfell? Cuz thats about what I would say would make them even.

Agreed. But I have a better ending for Cercei's: eaten by Drogon, bite by bite as in The Princess and the Queen.

[Winnief]

More than all, I want Ned's name cleared and for him to be vindicated. People think him a traitor who died a traitor's death. He needs to be redeemed which ultimately means all of the Lannister's garbage will come to light. That and a violent Cersei death (only after she looks upon the destruction of her family) will be enough for me. I used to think the same for Jaime, and I definitely won't shed a tear when he goes, but he's been growing on me for a bit. Funny how the redemptive Lannister is the closest thing to actual revenge a Stark might personally achieve (via Stoneheart).

And oh yeah, the Lannisters and Freys currently inhabiting the surrendered lands of the Lords who supported the Starks need to all gtfo and/or die. Genna Lannister in particular needs to go before she hires an assassin to kill Edmure.

That's true Lost Time-neither Ned nor Robb, (the young wolf warged out and attacked people...wtf?!?) should continue to have their reputations stained in death. One consolation is that from the sounds of things, very few people in the Seven Kingdoms now, believe the Lannister party line about Ned; Cersei/Jaime is the worst kept secret in the realm, and people are now saying, (if in secret) that the Lannister's killed the Hand of the King because he learned the truth.

Still it would mean a LOT to Sansa and Arya to have their father publicly cleared of all wrongdoing and have the histories tell the true story.

I actually kinda like Genna as a character, but yeah, I'm scared of what she'll try to do Edmure, and the pregnant Roslin at this point.

Also from the sounds of it Emmon Frey is such a horrible lord, that his own servants might well try to kill him at some point, just so they don't have to listen to anymore of his speeches.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Well, they will be even with the Boltons and Freys...

Joffrey and Tywin are already dead so they are even when Cersei dies. And Jaime too actually (I mean he did throw Bran down a tower) although I can also see him redeem himself to the starks in some way.

Tyrion is actually on pretty good terms with the Stark. He tried to protect Sansa and didn't take advantage of her. He created the saddle for Bran and he was friendly with Jon. And of course he killed Tywin and as far as most people know Joffrey as well.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

No. The Lannisters must be Castamere'd for what they did to the Reynes, the Tarbecks and the Starks. The debt they owe can only be paid with the deaths of their entire family (the main branch, at the very least).