[BOOK SPOILERS] Pod and whores

[relish5k]

I thought that the actual whore scene was some fine, fun, and totally expected GoT nudity (loved the reference to the Merenese knot!). But the scene after where he tells Tyrion that they didn't take the money, wtf? Obviously no westerosi whore is every going to work pro-bono, and unless that had some kind of plat justification, which seems unlikely, it felt a lot like a waste of valuable time.

[The Dragon King]

The scene did nothing to better tell the overall story, so much great stuff is cut from the books because there's simply not enough time yet they give 7 minutes to a scene like this?

[ServantOnIce]

Not always true. When the scene with Brienne and Jaime in the tub shows up, you'll know that's not always true.

And it doesn't avoid the fact that it seems like it's alienating the female audience. (Or some guys who don't just want gratuitous sex scenes. :leaving: )

The actress playing Brienne is also a model, they are, "uglying her up" for her role, so we shall see. I am a bible thumper so you know I am not into gratuitous sex scenes, but one fact is certain on the weekneds all over this nation strip clubs are packed with men and women paying to see women naked. Attractive female nudity in my opinion drives the pleasure center of humanity.

But Michaelangelo's, "David" may prove my theory otherwise.

I do wish they at least made the scene shorter.

[Kittykatknits]

I had held off from responding to you until I could see where you were coming from - glad I did.

The point I was going to take you up on were the two Bronn scenes you cited as being offended by. I thought they actually pushed his character along very nicely.... They weren't in the book, but the Renly/Loras scenes weren't either, but I feel they were important for character development and story lines as well.

I do agree with you, there is a distinct lack of consentual sex scenes. Shows like Deadwood and Rome had them but they are glaringly obvious here by their absence. I'd say fully half the brothel scenes add nothing to the story and much as I like a good hetero sex scene myself it really has come to the point where I just think "Oh no, here we go again..." when they come on now.

I can agree that those two scenes expand on Bronn's character. It doesn't change the fact that they are part of a larger pattern. Look at the Blackwater scene, the whore is suddenly in the center of the screen, slowly being unwrapped. All the men in the brothel are watching her as Bronn slowly unwraps his present. She's got a smile on her face, watching them looking at her. It's a classic male gaze scene. If this was closer to an exception, I don't think I'd have much issue with it. But, you combine it with all the brothel scenes that you mention, it's just more piling on. Deadwood and Rome are good examples of what I'm getting at. Deadwood remains one of my all time favorite shows.

The Spartacus series on Starz had balanced nudity, in fact some dudes complained it was too much male nudity for their liking.

The reality is this, women look better naked than men do. Seeing Alfie Allen's pasty behind last night scarred me, it did. Get some sun Alfie. Naked women, especially beautiful naked women drive humanity. We see it all the time in art from primitive to modern cultures. I am not talking about pornography or the like but real art.

Plus Weiss, Benhoff and GRRM like lovely naked women . .. I do agree with the posts that the scene was just to show T and A and a waste of time, but I enjoyed the bull session with Pod, that is what we men do.

I wonder, do women do that?

Yes, Spartacus does have balanced nudity. I stopped watching more because I have rather limited screen time and felt the plot and story just weren't as good compared to the first season. The men who found all the male nudity to be a bit much, welcome to our world. :)

As to the male form, I'm not sure I can agree that women look better naked. It's a matter of preference and we can admire both. Women enjoy looking at chests, back, legs, shoulders, pasty behinds, and even cocks.

As to women talking that way, I can assure you we do. You'd be surprised at what women will say when men are not around and how explicit it can get.

So, what you're saying they should add in more porn, but with men this time so women can get their jerkoff time in front of the TV as well? That seems only fair, unfortunately Renly died in season 2. I have a theory that they are foreshadowing Pod to be the new God Of Male Sex in this season, so dont worry, you should see some flesh in the end.

Well see, that doesn't help much. I'm probably twice Pod's age so not sure he's the one I'd pick for God of Male Sex. :)

As to the porn time, I'm saying that whether they cut it or add more total time isn't as important. I'd prefer they keep it balanced, if that makes sense.

Good conversation, sadly I need to step away from the computer for awhile. :(

[Cas Stark]

The scene did nothing to better tell the overall story, so much great stuff is cut from the books because there's simply not enough time yet they give 7 minutes to a scene like this?

Right, that is more than 10% of the entire show devoted to some stupid whore scene that wasn't in the books and has no bearing on any of the plot lines.

[King Cheops]

I thought it was funny so I guess I'm just a stupid frat boy. I thought it added some personality to Podrick whom we'll be seeing more of in the future. Casual viewers don't even really know who he is (I had to explain to my wife and now my co-workers) so having this scene helps cement him in their heads and implies that the Brienne/Pod storyline won't be dropped.

I think that's a good thing.

[Gannicus]

I can agree that those two scenes expand on Bronn's character. It doesn't change the fact that they are part of a larger pattern. Look at the Blackwater scene, the whore is suddenly in the center of the screen, slowly being unwrapped. All the men in the brothel are watching her as Bronn slowly unwraps his present. She's got a smile on her face, watching them looking at her. It's a classic male gaze scene. If this was closer to an exception, I don't think I'd have much issue with it. But, you combine it with all the brothel scenes that you mention, it's just more piling on. Deadwood and Rome are good examples of what I'm getting at. Deadwood remains one of my all time favorite shows.

Yes, Spartacus does have balanced nudity. I stopped watching more because I have rather limited screen time and felt the plot and story just weren't as good compared to the first season. The men who found all the male nudity to be a bit much, welcome to our world. :)

As to the male form, I'm not sure I can agree that women look better naked. It's a matter of preference and we can admire both. Women enjoy looking at chests, back, legs, shoulders, pasty behinds, and even cocks.

As to women talking that way, I can assure you we do. You'd be surprised at what women will say when men are not around and how explicit it can get.

Well see, that doesn't help much. I'm probably twice Pod's age so not sure he's the one I'd pick for God of Male Sex. :)

As to the porn time, I'm saying that whether they cut it or add more total time isn't as important. I'd prefer they keep it balanced, if that makes sense.

Good conversation, sadly I need to step away from the computer for awhile. :(

Does everything have to be so serious?

I thought it was funny.

My GF was laughing harder than me.

The men/women we were with were all laughing as well.

Yes it's from a male perspective, but it was funny, well acted, and was a needed moment of comic relief in a high paced and intense show.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

Don't overthink it - I had all kinds of crazy thoughts too when I saw him put the money down, but it was certainly just supposed to be a joke/development for Pod.

And if you think about it, it actually fits his character perfectly... All we really hear about Pod over and over in the books is how he is such a timid and softspoken boy but a completely badass when in battle... I assume they are trying to make a reference that his hidden talents on the battlefield also translate into bed. ;)

I had no problem with the scene because I love Pod and as others said we can't see Tyrion's thoughts on TV so there has to be someway to show Pod's badass side.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

So, any real point to this scene except for an excuse to see nudity? I actually thought there was some kind of purpose to it when the whores didn't take Pod's money, but apparently it was supposed to be funny. I do like seeing more of Pod, however. I guess any way to introduce him is a good way? He'll be with Brienne eventually now, I assume - good sign :)

Pod's scene was supposed to be humorous and it did actually gave me a chuckle. However...it took away 7 minutes or so from this episode's allotted time, while some scenes I'd rather see (Arya and the BWB, for example) had so little time.

[Ser Luke.]

My least favorite scene in the series. Not joking.

I don't even care about the nudity on this show, no scene has bothered me before, but this one just felt SO out of place, with it's weird comedy and prolonged shots. I didn't NOT like the scene because of the nudity, I didn't like it because it really felt extremely out of place and random.

[Young Nan]

No purpose that I can see other than to waste time better spent on relevant plot points. I don't understand why they would devote so much time to a gratuitous scene like that, that provides no character insight or reveal or moves the plot forward in any way.

^

Yeah, its a show, not the books, I get it. But still- the creators are always saying in interviews "oh, we love the books so much and we just really wish we could have done such and such scene but we just don't have the time/budget"

Yet, how many minutes long was Pod's scene? How many minutes spent on "Ros" (as if we needed an extra character to be created)

They can still show lots of boobs and create scenes that further the story in some meaningful way.

[Envie]

Okay, this might be extremely true.

MOAR COCK PLEASE!

kthnxbai.

I guess you forgot we got to see full front on HODOR?! ;)

I'm going to take the side that thinks people are getting way too worked up about 'wasted minutes' showing T&A because frankly the rest of those minutes, every single one of them, were brilliant and I think overall they're doing a fantastic job keeping pace with a book that was really really difficult to sum up in one or two seasons collectively at 60 minutes a pop.

I have personally never had a problem with any of the sex scenes in the series so far. It's HBO and I've watched enough HBO series to know this is one component of the entertainment factor for that venue. Not to say it's mandatory, but it's how the channel has typically always done drama... a lot of hard hitting gut-wrenching violence and drama combined with some goofy humor and sex scenes for stress relief. It seems to be working very well based on ratings and sales so who are you all to say it's wrong. Wrong for -you- perhaps. Stop being such uptight stick-in-the-muds. Sounds like some of you haven't gotten enough of that in your own life episodes (Pod envy maybe?). Just sayin' :P

I'm still deliriously happy HBO is doing this epic saga instead of a motion picture company. We get so so much more screen time and details we never would have gotten on the big screen. Be happy for what we get y'all!

[FacelessSnow]

The scene did nothing to better tell the overall story, so much great stuff is cut from the books because there's simply not enough time yet they give 7 minutes to a scene like this?

I posted this in the discussion thread but its more relevent here:

I think people are reading WAY too much into this, the scene was a simple amusing anecdote that provided HBO's necessity for nudity while establishing two important plot points:

1) The Bank at Bravos is owed a LOT of money (without the Pod scene this would have been a little dry)

2) Pod and Tyrion have a strong bond that in coming seasons is importance to explain Pod's "quest"

I prefer a scene like this to Bron's opening scene at the brothel which really added nothing except maybe an example of the "finer things"

[Joyful Union]

Not a fan of the scene.

There's a surprise

I seriously think people need to lighten up. I don't recall any massive complaints about Tormund's member jokes taking up valuable pages in SoS. Or Dolorous Edd's comments wasting valuable page space. The show doesn't need to be so damn serious all the time! The excuse that it doesnt advance the plot could be argued for tons of scenes in the show and in the books, almost any dialog really.

[piratesswoop]

I guess you forgot we got to see full front on HODOR?! ;)

Not even, they used a prosthetic penis! We can't even get authentic naked men shots. The only penis we've seen since we saw Hodor and Pycelle's unwanted extremities in season one was newborn baby Craster.

There's a surprise

I seriously think people need to lighten up. I don't recall any massive complaints about Tormund's member jokes taking up valuable pages in SoS. Or Dolorous Edd's comments wasting valuable page space. The show doesn't need to be so damn serious all the time! The excuse that it doesnt advance the plot could be argued for tons of scenes in the show and in the books, almost any dialog really.

This is a stupid argument. A book does not have to worry about time constraints or a CGI budget. GRRM can spend 20 pages talking about Joffrey's hypothetical undescended left testicle if he wanted to because he can write as much as he wants to expand on the plot in a book. The show does not have this luxury. They have ten episodes at 55-60 minutes each to lay out the important plot points and you can't just throw in unnecessary stuff like this while complaining about time constraints. it's just silly.

[Greywolf2375]

I think the scene will have some meaning later on - when the LF plot gets more exposure. Maybe Pod blurted out something while being... entertained? I really would think more and more the "payment" was Littlefinger's bit.

Maybe...but what? What could Pod have that is so important that it makes LF forget even more how to play the game and tip his hand again by giving it away for free? Is it that Shae is Tyrions? if so, weak since we've all ready seen that connection used by Varys last season.

My hope was that POD actually found something out which was generating the last questions by Tyrion...but nope...it's just about the free sex.

[Zman1863]

I don't have a problem with lighthearted diversions to keep things lively but I would have prefered them to make it shorter. I think the fact that it seems like every nude scene in the show occurs in LF's Kings Landing Brothel is a lot of what makes the nudity in GoT seem clumsy compared to other shows. The problem seems to have been compounded since we stopped getting our seemingly weekly dose of Theon's Sex Diary.

[StarkDragon]

Stop being such uptight stick-in-the-muds. Sounds like some of you haven't gotten enough of that in your own life episodes (Pod envy maybe?). Just sayin' :P

Hmm. I'm concerned over the alienation of the female audience over constant female nudity, gratuitously to the male sex, whereas very little (none of late) is given to the other sexed audience.

That Pod's scene was drawn out and completely pointless in a season they profess to having a hard time getting all the actual plot stuffed into it was something I missed to even mention, but it seems a decent point.

However, you must be right. I must not get any sex, and that is why I disliked Pod's scene, and was also all for male sex scenes to please the other sex. I mean, of course the only reasonable means of arguing what point of view might have, is to just wave me and others off as bias and purely the fact that I am so damn lame. I mean surely, someone who gets sex, would want to see sex in an extremely complicated story like ASOIAF, rather than actual plot development. And of course, I and anyone else who argues with that scene are so lame, surely, that with that problem we couldn't just go look for a porn site instead. No, we have to go to the utterly complex world of ASOIAF that deals with Patriarchy, rape, torture, and even the regular sex, as important and critical plot developments.

Surely, anyone who thinks those scenes were unnecessary, or unnecessarily wrong, are completely bias, and are secretly plotting the murder of Podrick Payne, the Penal Lord. It is known~.

Edit: Oh, and incase you didn't get it. /end sarcasm.

[teemo]

Count me in on more male nudity. Spartacus does it. I have quite a few gay friends who love that show for reasons surrounding the male nudity. Game of Thrones will only give one side of it, unless it's Hodor. If that's being "lame" or a "stick in the mud," sorry, but i think it's a valid point..

[Madfunkymonkey]

I looked at the scene this way. The whores know that Tyrion saved KL and that Pod fought and saved Tyrion's life in the battle therefore by extension saved them. So as a reward the whores gave Pod a freebee. Plus Pod could be a man amongst men.