Bastard of Balmora Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Can't seem to get the proper combination of words into a search engine for a decent discussion about this, so I'll just ask...Do you think Jaime was just being his usual flippant and arrogant self with that remark, or did he understand the subtext of their conversation and directly encourage Roose to murder Robb? (mind you, I realize whatever Roose had planned was still going to happen with our without Jaime's quips) I always figured that Jaime was just being a dick, and that Roose took it a bit too literally in the end. Now, I'm beginning to think Jaime did understand what Roose was implying (because I think Roose mentions his treachery at Duskendale during his conversation with Jaime) and that when the time came Jaime wanted Roose to salt the wound with a reference to the Kingslayer that got away...basically what I'm getting at is that even though Jaime didn't know the Red Wedding would happen, he had to know some serious betrayal was about to occur...so I don't think Jaime should be exempt completely from the impact of Roose's line when he murders Robb as just a "Oh he was kidding..." scenarioAlso, did Roose knowingly take it too far and basically implicate/condemn Jaime in front of everyone, even though Jaime really had nothing to do with orchestrating the Red Wedding? Seems like an unwise move for a man as smart as Roose. Then again he couldn't have known Catelyn would come back to life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Jaime definitely recognized that Roose was willing to switch sides. But subtly encouraging him to murder his King with a flippant remark? I don't see it - especially since we get Jaime's POV and he thinks nothing of the sort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ürglõvi Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Also, did Roose knowingly take it too far and basically implicate/condemn Jaime in front of everyone, even though Jaime really had nothing to do with orchestrating the Red Wedding? Seems like an unwise move for a man as smart as Roose. Then again he couldn't have known Catelyn would come back to life...Sure he did. Roose would only win from implying Lannister involvement, as it shifts the focus of public outrage away from him. There were plenty of witnesses other than Catelyn and the story would spread, meaning that Tywin can't keep his name clean by turning poor Freys&Boltons into scapgoats of his machinations. By using Jaime's own words he can even honestly say he hasn't actually blamed anyone.Give my regards to your father.So long as you give mine to Robb Stark.The more I think about it, the more I suspect Roose set up this conversation on purpose. It isn't even Jaime being a dick, just a standard answer Roose might expect from someone like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisJamie Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I think it sets up Jaime's current situation with the leader of the BWoB quite nicely. Such a flippant remark ended up being the last thing Cats son heard before he died, so he is in trouble there. It adds to the trend also that Jaime gets the blame for things, we as the reader know he doesn't deserve.Futher discussion is needed as to why Roose took Jaime's words so seriously, maybe thats just the type of man he is - but I would guess that there is more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Futher discussion is needed as to why Roose took Jaime's words so seriously, maybe thats just the type of man he is - but I would guess that there is more to it than that.He wasn't taking it seriously. It was just an amusing little dig he got in (being "polite" while killing his King), and an ode to the realm's only other Kingslayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethzilla Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think it sets up Jaime's current situation with the leader of the BWoB quite nicely. Such a flippant remark ended up being the last thing Cats son heard before he died, so he is in trouble there. It adds to the trend also that Jaime gets the blame for things, we as the reader know he doesn't deserve.This may be true... but remember... he did push Bran off the tower to cover up his incest... so he's not all innocent.Everytime I start liking him I keep telling myself this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgunbuddyguy Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I'm wondering if Roose Bolton thinks Jaime is in on it and then takes it literally? I think the most plausible explanation is that Jaime was just being wry and Roose then thought it would be funny (or to place blame) to actually deliver the message. (first post!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTHATGuy Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 You guys missed one important detail that Arya or Sansa(maybe even Bran) reflect on at some point later in the book: Bolton's used to capture and flay Starks in the days of old.They have bad blood through history and a Clash of Kings paints an ugly picture for this house as a treacherous house. Just look at the company they keep: Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions.No this was Roose plotting with the Frey's. Roose said it to Catelyn expecting her to live(A hostage if I'm not mistaken). Robb was the only one that was supposed to die. Roose was going to put that image into cats head but she went batshit and they killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice_Singer Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I have more of a question regarding the final blow to Robb, as opposed to a reply to this thread. I love these books and I have just started A Dance with Dragons. I do miss many of the context clues though so I'm planning on starting all over when I finish. Anyway, is it absolutely, 100% confirmed that it was Roose Bolton who delivered the fatal blow to Robb? I did re-read the Red Wedding chapter and Cat gives a description of the guy but she is definitely unaware of who he is. Is it simply the phrase, "Jamie Lannister sends his regards" that implicates Bolton, or is there a future chapter in A Dance with Dragons that confirms this as fact? And I do know that the phrase isn't quite so simple... Like I said, I do miss many of the context clues but I do remember the exchange between Roose and Jaime when they parted ways at Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogma107 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have more of a question regarding the final blow to Robb, as opposed to a reply to this thread. I love these books and I have just started A Dance with Dragons. I do miss many of the context clues though so I'm planning on starting all over when I finish. Anyway, is it absolutely, 100% confirmed that it was Roose Bolton who delivered the fatal blow to Robb? I did re-read the Red Wedding chapter and Cat gives a description of the guy but she is definitely unaware of who he is. Is it simply the phrase, "Jamie Lannister sends his regards" that implicates Bolton, or is there a future chapter in A Dance with Dragons that confirms this as fact? And I do know that the phrase isn't quite so simple... Like I said, I do miss many of the context clues but I do remember the exchange between Roose and Jaime when they parted ways at Harrenhal. The scheme is laid out in pretty great detail in the chapters after the RW. Tywin discusses it at length with Tyrion, who was upset that he was not involved in the plans, and he makes it clear that he traded Roose Bolton's legitimacy and title of Warden of North in exchange for his regicidal show of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have more of a question regarding the final blow to Robb, as opposed to a reply to this thread. I love these books and I have just started A Dance with Dragons. I do miss many of the context clues though so I'm planning on starting all over when I finish. Anyway, is it absolutely, 100% confirmed that it was Roose Bolton who delivered the fatal blow to Robb? I did re-read the Red Wedding chapter and Cat gives a description of the guy but she is definitely unaware of who he is. Is it simply the phrase, "Jamie Lannister sends his regards" that implicates Bolton, or is there a future chapter in A Dance with Dragons that confirms this as fact? And I do know that the phrase isn't quite so simple... Like I said, I do miss many of the context clues but I do remember the exchange between Roose and Jaime when they parted ways at Harrenhal.It's the line plus the pink cloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 wait so if jaime knew robb would die, what did he think would happen to catelyn? obviously it puts a wrinkle in his oath to return the stark girls home if their remaining family are killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 wait so if jaime knew robb would die, what did he think would happen to catelyn? obviously it puts a wrinkle in his oath to return the stark girls home if their remaining family are killed.1. That was old Jaime. Before he became the noblest knight Westeros has ever seen :cool4:2. Catelyn was not supposed to die. They wanted her as a hostage for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theriveryeti Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It bugs me, too. The RW doesn't seem like Jaime's style.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyCat Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I don't think Jaime had any forewarning of the Red Wedding. But maybe Roose set up that conversation to make it look like he did. Maybe. It's tempting. I definitely think he made a show of saying the Lannisters send their regards while stabbing Robb to plant the link with anyone who heard it that the Lannisters were aware of and supporting the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Demon Monkey Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not like anyone could have heard what Roose says to Robb in that soft whispering little voice of his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mia B. Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 in my opinion, he sent the lannisters regards just to add salt to the wound. He is not a nice person and Boltons are known to be vile human beings... I dont think he thought much into it i think it was more of him wanting to make a statement and be the person with the last words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lady Stark Martell Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think it had something to do with Kingslaying. Bolton was slaying the king he once served, as did Jaime. And he's a Lannister, so, salt to the wound, and maybe he thought it was funny and would make a good last words kinda thing. The last thing Robb saw was one of his men becoming his enemy, much like with Aerys and Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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