do stannis's failures make him do what he does?

[Toxspecific]

And what's worse was that Stannis didn't go North, the place that he could take the war again but from a different side and liberate a huge portion of land from Lannister rule... Oh.

And there's no comparison with Dany my friend (: How much sense their characters make, how much sense their storylines make, the extent to which their storylines can bore you to tears (guess who I'm referring to)... There's simply no comparison. Stannis is, in his own capacity, a far more successful person than Dany is in her own capacity.

Dany fails. Simple as that. That is why, while Robb, Ned, Stannis, Littlefinger's fans can actually talk about their characters' achievements and accomplishments, Dany's support is mostly composed of attempts, purely in vain, at defending obvious mistakes she makes.

This is a troll thread so I hope making a series post did not upset its flow. And no offense to anybody, these are just my views on the characters.

[imajasjam]

Stannis is the supreme being obviously.

[The Drunkard]

I expected something to do with Judas.

I am disapoint.

[gash]

No you don't. You are trolling because you hate Stannis out of your love for Dany, and you know that since these two can hardly co-rule, Stannis has to be the bad guy

i don't hate stannis. i don't hate any characters.

"you hate stannis, you must be trolling" is a really poor argument tbh.

i don't accuse dany haters of trolling, even when they say things like "she is a murderous psychopath".

like i said, i challenge belief systems, and this makes people uncomfortable. you've been exposed to a truth explsion. if it's your first time experiencing this, you will be a bit shaken, i understand.

[StarkDragon]

i don't hate stannis. i don't hate any characters.

"you hate stannis, you must be trolling" is a really poor argument tbh.

i don't accuse dany haters of trolling, even when they say things like "she is a murderous psychopath".

Dany? Murderous? Preposterous.

That's like saying Stannis likes ships.

[DExit]

Dany? Murderous? Preposterous.

That's like saying Stannis likes ships.

:bowdown:

Although I don't see the misfortions that have befallen him as his faillures, they might have something to do with how his character is formed. Not fathering a boy but fathering a girl isn't a faillure but a man would like to have a son, I agree, although I don't think Stan makes as much a deal of it as other Westerosi lords would.

[Ramsay B.]

I've always believed that Stannis is just trying to prove himself kind of like an insecure little kid but, alas, he is only human.

Gash is putting on a show in this forum, I like it.

[Toxspecific]

I've always believed that Stannis is just trying to prove himself kind of like an insecure little kid but, alas, he is only human.

Gash is putting on a show in this forum, I like it.

He holds grievances, because he had a shit childhood. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

[Lord Warhammer]

The only thing the OP said that could be attributed to Stannis directly is the Blackwater (which was not a humiliation just a loss), as the lone survivor of the WotFK I have to ask where is the failure? He may not sit the throne but where is the competition? 5-4=1

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Stannis, as much as I love him, has a serious inferiority complex. He's the type of guy who sees slights in everything and feels like everybody owes him something. He can't wrap his mind around personal desires over duty.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

I think there is some truth, but not in the way the OP presented it. It is more of a tragic than a pathetic thing, he not only has the so-dreaded middle child syndrome, but he honestly tries doing good, what he thinks is right, and he is laughed out of the small councils, laughed out of King's Landing, before that he's passed over his birthright for his younger, more popular brother. Then, he's the rightful heir to the throne, and he gets passed over AGAIN, for a bastard born of incest no less. It's not an inferiority complex, it's the strain and weight of being passed over, ignored and rejected constantly.

But that's his greatest strength, he's regarded as "relentless", "unyielding" and we can gather from the books that he's rather inspiring in the right situation. This is a result of him having to fight against the current to get pretty much anything done in his favor. How else do you get an army of knights, fresh from failure on the Blackwater, to go to the North, and fight in a war they don't care about, all the while they're chanting zealously, "One God, One Realm, One King! Stannis! Stannis!" Sure he's got Melisandre to win over the newly converted zealots, but he's still got to win over the Seveners as well.

[A Man Has Said]

No you don't. You are trolling because you hate Stannis out of your love for Dany...

[...]

Only when he sees the vision of the Night's Watch at the FotFM does he truly believe that there is truth in what she tells him of the battle for the dawn. And when Davos brings him the letter from the NW, even when all Mel is telling him is that he should burn Edric, he goes north.

Calling his mental and emotional status as "weak minded clay", is so ridiculous and disconnected from the Stannis we read about in the books, that there is no way to describe your post other then trolling.

LOL @ any Stannistan throwing around accusations of trolling out of love for the character they support! That's truly the raven calling the crow black.

A TALE OF TWO STANNISES:

Your passage I've bolded is to my mind Stannis' finest moment - when he not only decides to follow Davos' advice and save the realm in order to become king instead of the other way around. Significantly, this is not something Stannis himself came up with himself, even after seeing Melisandre's vision of the NW at the Fist of the First Men - he was talked into it. He gets major points though for convincing Mel that it's the right path, (or she may have come to that for her own reasons, which we'll get to.)

- MAJOR hero points go to Stannis for that. That's one Stannis, but the other one is revealed under closer examination.

But here's the fly in that ointment. Once he's actually at the wall, Stannis' actions are more self-serving than heroic. He is especially to be criticized for doing things that Melisandre wants him to do. The burning of Rattleshirt, (who he thinks is Mance Rayder) forcing the wildlings to adopt Rh'llor as their god, the burning of weirwood (not actual trees, just branches, but still symbolic destruction of the Old Religion) and more or less forcing the situation to make Jon agree to giving The Gift to the refugee wildlings, some of whom he wants to serve in HIS army, for HIS purpose of gaining the Iron Throne. Stannis reveals himself to be at the Wall not to save the realm, but to justify his quest to become king.

ETA: [None of this can be justified by the usual, 'but he's the rightful king' argument that Stannis Stans resort to whenever.. Stannis has NO authority at The Wall, and should be begging for Jon's leave every time he takes a piss. Instead he throws his weight around as always because he at that point has the larger army, and acts as though it's all within his g0d-given authority, which most certainly it is not.]

In his actions at the wall, especially in the bits I've underlined, he does to some degree justify the characterization of 'weak-minded clay.' Whether that's from an inferiority complex brought about by sibling rivalry is anybody's guess, but my guess would be YES, it is. I think whoever wrote his Wiki entry might agree:

"Stannis is obsessed with slights both real and imagined.."

That said, however, I would say that many of those slights were very real, because brother Bob was a proper jerk to him. Still, I have to agree with Donal Noyes' assessment that he is not the true steel, but brittle black iron - more fit to make a skillet out of than a sword.

[E-Ro]

LOL @ any Stannistan throwing around accusations of trolling out of love for the character they support! That's truly the raven calling the crow black.

A TALE OF TWO STANNISES:

Your passage I've bolded is to my mind Stannis' finest moment - when he not only decides to follow Davos' advice and save the realm in order to become king instead of the other way around. Significantly, this is not something Stannis himself came up with himself, even after seeing Melisandre's vision of the NW at the Fist of the First Men - he was talked into it. He gets major points though for convincing Mel that it's the right path, (or she may have come to that for her own reasons, which we'll get to.)

- MAJOR hero points go to Stannis for that. That's one Stannis, but the other one is revealed under closer examination.

But here's the fly in that ointment. Once he's actually at the wall, Stannis' actions are more self-serving than heroic. He is especially to be criticized for doing things that Melisandre wants him to do. The burning of Rattleshirt, (who he thinks is Mance Rayder) forcing the wildlings to adopt Rh'llor as their god, the burning of weirwood (not actual trees, just branches, but still symbolic destruction of the Old Religion) and more or less forcing the situation to make Jon agree to giving The Gift to the refugee wildlings, some of whom he wants to serve in HIS army, for HIS purpose of gaining the Iron Throne. Stannis reveals himself to be at the Wall not to save the realm, but to justify his quest to become king.

In his actions at the wall, especially in the bits I've underlined, he does to some degree justify the characterization of 'weak-minded clay.' Whether that's from an inferiority complex brought about by sibling rivalry is anybody's guess, but my guess would be YES, it is. I think whoever wrote his Wiki entry might agree:

Here we go again insulting a group of people with accusations of "stan stans are trolls"

The wildlings after defeated were his vassals, they swore to him in return for shelter and safety. If he wanted some of them to fight for him and help save the north from the starks then thats his right. He didnt in the end take any wildlings away, so im not sure what the issue, is. Why are we blaming him for events that never transpired? As well about mance, he was a traitor, oathbreaker, and had just led a huge assault on stannis' people. Any other lord would have done the same and executed him, only they would have tortured him a bit first. Stannis gave him a chance, but he said no he would not bend. So Stannis was going to have him killed.

Stannis goes south again to help house starks and gather support to defend the realm from the others. what was he supposed to do after taking the wall? Sit there with his hands up his ass and do nothing? Of course he was going to go south, he cant very well hold the wall with an enemy at his back and the amount of men he has not even near enough to fight the others (Whom Stannis knows are the real threat)

[bbstark]

i challenge belief systems. i open people's minds. i expose people to truth explosions.

i won't apologise for that.

actually I think you're a condescending troll ... but I suppose that's more difficult to apologise for

dude, it's ok to be funny, but don't forget you're talking to actual people

[Toxspecific]

Here we go again insulting a group of people with accusations of "stan stans are trolls"

The wildlings after defeated were his vassals, they swore to him in return for shelter and safety. If he wanted some of them to fight for him and help save the north from the starks then thats his right. He didnt in the end take any wildlings away, so im not sure what the issue, is. Why are we blaming him for events that never transpired? As well about mance, he was a traitor, oathbreaker, and had just led a huge assault on stannis' people. Any other lord would have done the same and executed him, only they would have tortured him a bit first. Stannis gave him a chance, but he said no he would not bend. So Stannis was going to have him killed.

Stannis goes south again to help house starks and gather support to defend the realm from the others. what was he supposed to do after taking the wall? Sit there with his hands up his ass and do nothing? Of course he was going to go south, he cant very well hold the wall with an enemy at his back and the amount of men he has not even near enough to fight the others (Whom Stannis knows are the real threat)

The Royal Brah has spoken. Well said.

[Chaircat Meow]

actually I think you're a condescending troll ... but I suppose that's more difficult to apologise for

dude, it's ok to be funny, but don't forget you're talking to actual people

Tbh he was responding to me with that post and I'd been pretty sarcastic. I think gash is totally awesome btw. Praise gash.

[A Man Has Said]

Here we go again insulting a group of people with accusations of "stan stans are trolls"

[...]

Stannis gave him a chance, but he said no he would not bend. So Stannis was going to have him killed.

I really wouldn't have expected you of all people to address the issues I raised.

You're really not presenting anything approaching a rational argument when you judge one character's actions by a completely different standard than all the rest. "Oh, it's OK, Stannis is the RIGHTFUL king, dontchaknow."

Stannis had NO authority at the wall. Dispute that. You can't, can you?

He's not the rightful king there, BY LAWS that are thousands of years old.

"Stannis gave him a chance, but he said no he would not bend. So Stannis was going to have him killed."

You should map that into a keyboard macro, you use it so much.

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

~ Jonathan Swift

[bbstark]

Tbh he was responding to me with that post and I'd been pretty sarcastic. I think gash is totally awesome btw.

well I was referring to gash's posting style in general

I've read a few threads and think he can do with turning the condescension down a peg or two

[The Great Walrus]

I've read a few threads and think he can do with turning the condescension down a peg or two

Or a dozen, but thats just me...

[Toxspecific]

'Stannis had no authority at the Wall'. Lol yeah, he had no right to rescue them, what was he thinking?