Cersei's feminist characteristics do not pay for what she has done

[Fetch me a block]

I have seen people (particularly in the thread 'Why are you a Cersian?') say that they like Cersei because she is a strong, independent woman, which they seem to be mistaking for feminism.

Let's get a few things clear:

• She only cares about the restraints put on her. We can see by little sexual stint with Taena and the way she treats Sansa that she does not care about women as a whole.
  
• She is a really, really, really bad person. She laughs and imprisons the man who tries to save her children, murders her husband, tries to kill her brother, and then wonders why karma pays her back by killing her son equally bad son. Stupid.
  
• The show version does evoke some sympathy, I accept that, but this shouldn't undermine her blatant madness.
  
• She is clearly incapable of running things. I hate Tywin, but at least he was an efficient politician. Cersei doesn't know a thing.
  
• She is a terrible mother. She makes no attempt to constrain Joffrey but criticizes Tommen and puts all the brakes on him, despite the fact he is clearly the better son.
  

[Theda Baratheon]

No. Cersei has no feminist characteristics, she is not interested in the betterment of women. She is interested in the betterment of herself.

Now, as a feminist, she is a very interesting character to look at. But she's actually a pretty big misogynist.

[Chaircat Meow]

I like her because she is an interesting character and a good villain. I was rooting for her towards the end of Affc ... :leaving:

[Olligarchy]

Completely aboard on this one. Cersei is just one of those characters whom you have to nitpick to find a shred of something positive.

[Fetch me a block]

No. Cersei has no feminist characteristics, she is not interested in the betterment of women. She is interested in the betterment of herself.

Now, as a feminist, she is a very interesting character to look at. But she's actually a pretty big misogynist.

Agreed, we are in consensus. I was making the point that some people seem to mistake her headstrong attitude for feminism

[Fetch me a block]

I like her because she is an interesting character and a good villain. I was rooting for her towards the end of Affc ... :leaving:

I hate her when I think about her but I find myself rooting for just about every POV character at the time I am reading.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Good character, terrible person.

[Fetch me a block]

Good character, terrible person.

Maybe. I just got an overwhelming sense that her arrogance prevented me from seeing anything good in her post-Tywin's death

[not in the face]

I have noticed that the older women in ASOIAF have no friends. The problem with Cersei is she does not have that friend that tells her no. Catelyn and Lysa are the same and make some horrible choices on their own.

[Cas Stark]

No. Cersei has no feminist characteristics, she is not interested in the betterment of women. She is interested in the betterment of herself.

Now, as a feminist, she is a very interesting character to look at. But she's actually a pretty big misogynist.

You beat me to it. Exactly. She may be one of the least feminist female characters in the entire series. She shows no sympathy for other women, does nothing to help any other women, has by all appearances done not a single thing in her time as Queen of Westeros to attempt to better or change the status of a single woman with the exception of Cersei Lannister, and she sees her own status primarily through the men in her life and the status/attention they confer on her.

She's a fantastic character, though, yes, but terrible, terrible person with zero redeeming qualities. Less redeeming qualities than even her father or Roose Bolton.

[Lord Reaver]

I dunno, something makes me feel Cersei's problem go just a liiiiiiittle deeper than that...

Anyway, yeah, Cersei's no feminist. Her highest wish in life is that she'd been born a man. That's not very feminist at all.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Maybe. I just got an overwhelming sense that her arrogance prevented me from seeing anything good in her post-Tywin's death

She's a good character because she is complicated and is a grey villain. Dark grey, but grey nonetheless. She's a terrible person because of...everything else.

[TheMysteriousOne]

I dislike Cersei, but the only redeeming quality that she has is that she's hot, and she's starting to lose even that...

[Fetch me a block]

I dislike Cersei, but the only redeeming quality that she has is that she's hot, and she's starting to lose even that...

Yeah, and in a series where pretty much all important women characters are hot (except Brienne of course) that isn't even saying much

[Young Nan]

Theda beat me to it.

Cersei isn't really a feminist. She is sexist herself. When she has to take charge of all the women in Maegor's holdfast during the battle of blackwater bay, she complaints of being "locked up with frightened hens". She wants people to see past her femininity and respect her, yet she herself is scornful and contemptious of other women for their own femininity.

She also isn't a good example of a strong woman. She actually embodies all the characteristics that sexist people say should keep women from being in power. She is overly emotional and makes decisions based on emotion, she is fickle, she responds to flattery instead of truth, and she uses her feminine wiles to seduce people.

IMO, a much better example of a strong woman would be Asha, Brienne, or Arya, who all challenge the societal norms of what a "woman" should be.

We also have other strong women who stick to their societal female roles, yet display their own strength and courage and excel at those roles, such as Margaery Tyrell or the Queen of Thornes.

[PrimeRhaegar]

the only thing i like about cersei is her looks god it still amazed me why sansa like her to begin with after she killed my wolf bitch would be on my hit list a long time ago.

[Theda Baratheon]

I love Cersei as a character though. :P She makes for some wonderful reading.

[Éadaoin]

I have noticed that the older women in ASOIAF have no friends. The problem with Cersei is she does not have that friend that tells her no. Catelyn and Lysa are the same and make some horrible choices on their own.

I think a lot of Catelyn's choices make sense when looked at from her POV. And I wouldn't put her in the same category as Lysa or Cersei.

Also, Cersei is a misogynist.

[not in the face]

I think a lot of Catelyn's choices make sense when looked at from her POV. And I wouldn't put her in the same category as Lysa or Cersei.

Also, Cersei is a misogynist.

Well if some girlfriend reminded Catelyn that Stannis was about to attack Kings Landing so Tyrion was like to be dead and Jaime killed on arrival, that might have caused Cat to think twice about releasing Jaime as she would gain nothing from it.

[Lord Reaver]

I think a lot of Catelyn's choices make sense when looked at from her POV. And I wouldn't put her in the same category as Lysa or Cersei.

Catelyn's choices only make sense to me if I look at them from her POV AND imagine myself to be 100% totally irrational.