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Moon-Pale Maiden

The Rightful Lord/Lady of Dragonstone

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Search is not enabled at this time, so my apologies if this has been discussed before.

Let's assume:

R+L = J and Jon is proven to be Targaryen/Stark

Aegon is presumed to be "the real Aegon"

Daenerys Targaryen comes back to Westeros

Who is the rightful holder of Dragonstone as the ancestral house of the Targaryens?

Does "rightful heir" mean anything during wartime if Dragons and Armies are involved?

Do you think there could be a fight for it?

Dany might come flying back to Westeros assuming she can stop in at Dragonstone and kick Stannis out, retaking her family's seat (with dragons).

Aegon might make his way down to Dragonstone to kick Stannis out to retake his family's seat (with the Golden Company)

Jon may desire to assert his right as the eldest son of Rhaegar and take Dragonstone (with, um.. a wild pack of free folk??)

I wasn't sure if this topic was supposed to be in the Winds of Winter subforum - please move, if so.

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Aegon = King

Jon = Prince of Dragonstone

And if Aegon fathers in the future, a boy at least, Jon will not hold this title anymore

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It's the home of the heir to the throne I believe, it belonged to Rhaegar whilst his father was king

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It's the home of the heir to the throne I believe, it belonged to Rhaegar whilst his father was king

yes, it's for the hair apparent

that's why Stannis had Dragonstone when Robert was king at first, when he still had no children

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It belongs to the Crown prince/princess, so the claimants to it just now would be:

1- Myrcella, as Tommen's heir

2- Shireen, as Stannis' heir

3- Dany, as (f)Ageon's heir

Jon isn't the rightful king or heir of anything. King Jaherys I outlawed polygamy, and since Elia was still alive when R + L ran away, Jon isnt legitimate. (That assumes that R+L=J, which might not be true, and if it is, may never be confirmed)

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The rightful ruler of Dragonstone, is Stannis and his heirs. Until such a time that he is defeated(bend the knee or killed) and taken by right of conquest, it belongs to STANNIS.

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It belongs to the Crown prince/princess, so the claimants to it just now would be:

1- Myrcella, as Tommen's heir

2- Shireen, as Stannis' heiri

3- Dany, as (f)Ageon's heir

Jon isn't the rightful king or heir of anything. King Jaherys I outlawed polygamy, and since Elia was still alive when R + L ran away, Jon isnt legitimate. (That assumes that R+L=J, which might not be true, and if it is, may never be confirmed)

kind old King J. outlawed the Lords tradition of "first night" at the behest of his sister-wife. No mention of polygamy, Blessed Belor lived decades after the Old King and was married to both his sisters (though never consummated)

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If you believe rhaegar and lyanna were marryed Jon is the rightfull king after aerys.

But since robert took the throne by conquest Stannis is the rightfull king so, who ever is king may choose an heir.

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I understand that currently Dragonstone belongs to the crown, but that's presumably because the Targaryens were deposed. If the Targaryens come back, wouldn't they want to fight for Dragonstone? I think in many ways, regardless of the "law", having your ancestral home back in Targaryen hands would be even more important than taking the Iron Throne.

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It belongs to the Crown prince/princess, so the claimants to it just now would be:

1- Myrcella, as Tommen's heir

2- Shireen, as Stannis' heir

3- Dany, as (f)Ageon's heir

Jon isn't the rightful king or heir of anything. King Jaherys I outlawed polygamy, and since Elia was still alive when R + L ran away, Jon isnt legitimate. (That assumes that R+L=J, which might not be true, and if it is, may never be confirmed)

As The Dornishman's Wife has said, polygamy isn't outlawed, and Jon is still a legitimate Targ so that would would put him as Dany's heir. Other then that, I agree.

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The rightful ruler of Dragonstone, is Stannis and his heirs. Until such a time that he is defeated(bend the knee or killed) and taken by right of conquest, it belongs to STANNIS.

I seem to remember Loras storming the castle and capturing it for the crown, the Lannister / Tyrell crown. Right now the castle belongs to Tommen, not Stannis.

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The rightful ruler of Dragonstone, is Stannis and his heirs. Until such a time that he is defeated(bend the knee or killed) and taken by right of conquest, it belongs to STANNIS.

And conquest is exactly what Loras Tyrell's forces have done to Dragonstone in AFFC. Hence, Stannis is out.

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Stannis may not hold Dragonstone, physically. However, I said Rightful. Stannis is the Rightful King and Lord of Dragonstone. Until such a time that he is killed or defeated, it remains his, despite who holds.

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Yeah Dragonstone was lost in Stannis' absence and captured by the Tyrells/Loras. However with all that gnarly stuff going on at the capital with margeary and Cersei and Loras gravelly(mortally?) wounded I wouldn't expect it to be that well defended. Whichever Targaryen comes out on top in the dance of dragons between (f)aegon or Daenerys, sorry gang their can only be one, will probably inherit the island fortress. His/her heir apparent would then become the prince, or possibly princess of Dragonstone.

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So we are saying that the heir apparent to the Iron Throne is always the rightful lord/lady of Dragonstone? Even in the presence of legitimate Targaryen heirs? It is their ancestral house, after all..

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So we are saying that the heir apparent to the Iron Throne is always the rightful lord/lady of Dragonstone? Even in the presence of legitimate Targaryen heirs? It is their ancestral house, after all..

That is how I see it. RB overthrew the Targs, Stannis is Robert's true heir and he was given Dragonstone, by royal decree. Until RB's entire line of sucession, is killed off or defeated its still rightfully theirs. However, If I make the arguement that I just did; it allows me to make the same claim for the Mad King's line of heirs, with at least one known for sure, still alive. It's a bloody mess!! :bang:

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As The Dornishman's Wife has said, polygamy isn't outlawed, and Jon is still a legitimate Targ so that would would put him as Dany's heir. Other then that, I agree.

I must have got confused between Polygamy and First Night.. It was First Night that King J outlawed. Still, I would hope that R & L weren't married, because so much of Jon's personality/character is drawn from the fact that he's a bastard

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So we are saying that the heir apparent to the Iron Throne is always the rightful lord/lady of Dragonstone? Even in the presence of legitimate Targaryen heirs? It is their ancestral house, after all..

Well in their traditions yes. I think "rightful" is one of the trickiest words to throw around right now at the conclusion of ADWD. When the Targaryens were the royal family, the heir apparent was the "prince of dragonstone" ala Rhaegar before Aerys' deposition. But as of right now we have two people claiming to be the rightful Targaryen ruler and one doesn't know about the other. It is their ancestral house, hell they built the castle(one of my favorites in all of Westeros) but none of this really matters till they can physically retake it. Targaryen succession is so tricky considering their royal line was deposed, if Roberts rebellion had never happened and rhaegar was king then Aegon would be the prince of dragonstone. We'll only know who the "rightful" lord/lady of Dragonstone is when the dance of dragons takes place.

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I must have got confused between Polygamy and First Night.. It was First Night that King J outlawed. Still, I would hope that R & L weren't married, because so much of Jon's personality/character is drawn from the fact that he's a bastard

Much of his personality is from the fact he think he's Ned's bastard, even if it's revealed to him that his actual father is Rhaegar and that Lyanna and him did indeed marry, he'll always think of himself as Ned's son.

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