[Book Spoilers] This is Bryan Cogman's episode.

[Winter's Knight]

So even though the episode was pretty much all from the books, this one detail is enough for you to lose respect for him? Pathetic.

It's a fairly disturbing detail that caricaturises Seleyse. Also, quite a bit of the episode wasn't in the books- the entire Stannis segment, the Loras scenes, Olaenna/Tyrion dialogue. And, in my opinion, all the added bits I've mentioned were terrible and in the case of Seleyse and Lora's, cringeworthy.

[Joyful Union]

By what measure was the Olenna Tyrion dialogue "terrible". Perhaps a retread, but not terrible. What was cringeworthy about the Loras scene, and is the addition of the jars why the Selsyse seen was cringeworthy, because otherwise she was very similar to how she was in the books. The pickled babies werent the focus of the scene at all. The scene between Stannis and Shireen was not terrible.

[boojam]

I think it interesting that for a thread with so many entries that no one mentioned the very first thing Bryan talked about.

That he, Dave and Dan had just visited George in Santa Fe, must have been last month.

This is the second time for Dave and Dan, and that was some while back.

I think this must mean something important for the show, and it interesting that Cogman was along.

If season 4 is as successful as season 3 , I don't think HBO will hesitate about about a season 5.

But then... I am sure HBO is asking about the end game.

Across even the first three books GRRM set up a big plot movement, at least it seems so. Winter has come and is still coming by the end of ADwD, implying the Others are on the move, this is a threat to all of Westeros.

Plus , at least as George has said, Dave and Dan (I guess now Brian) know the rest of the story.

Novels 4 and 5 have enough material than can be jiggered around , if enough imagination is put in it to make even a season 5 and 6.

For instance we have the breaking of the siege of Meereen looming, that could be a big set piece.

But where, the end of season 5?

As a reader I can ride on GRRM's story telling ability, but turning all that exposition into teleplay ... well it's a problem.

Don't know where George is with WoW.

So am guessing Dave, Dan and Bryan have a plan , season 5 is really going to be restructured, and I don't know how.

My guess is if they can get a wrap in 7 seasons that's it, possibly 6.

Of HBO's 'BIG' (I mean expensive) series they will have gone one season past Dead Wood, two seasons past ROME,

Uncharted territory looms.

[The Flaying Man]

As a reader I can ride on GRRM's story telling ability, but turning all that exposition into teleplay ... well it's a problem.

Don't know where George is with WoW.

So am guessing Dave, Dan and Bryan have a plan , season 5 is really going to be restructured, and I don't know how.

My guess is if they can get a wrap in 7 seasons that's it, possibly 6.

Of HBO's 'BIG' (I mean expensive) series they will have gone one season past Dead Wood, two seasons past ROME,

Uncharted territory looms.

I'm of the same opinion, and I expect the second half of season 4 will involve the beginnings of some arcs in both AFFC and ADWD. It's interesting that Cogman tagged along but Vanessa Taylor didn't, and hopefully this means that Cogman will be given a lot more material to work with next season, and possibly a more authoritative role in the overall structure and running of the show.

Season 5 will definitely have to be restructured, and I expect a lot to be cut and shuffled around, much more so than we have seen in the two and a half seasons so far. I'd agree that depending on the material in TWOW and ADOS, added to how the AFFC and ADWD material is handled, the show could very well conclude after its sixth season.

If HBO is happy with season 4, I have no doubt we will see the story out to the end on screen. Rome and Deadwood are my two favourite shows, and I ironically find Hearst's departure a wonderfully ambiguous ending...life goes on, a la The Wire and most definitely Treme!

[boojam]

I'm of the same opinion, and I expect the second half of season 4 will involve the beginnings of some arcs in both AFFC and ADWD. It's interesting that Cogman tagged along but Vanessa Taylor didn't, and hopefully this means that Cogman will be given a lot more material to work with next season, and possibly a more authoritative role in the overall structure and running of the show.

I think, and this happened in season 1, if not before, Bryan Cogman is the number 3 man on the show.

Which is interesting since he is the 'book source' guy, Dave and Dan are very knowledgeable but Bryan has always been their go to guy, well he's around for the production shooting and George is not.

[Joyful Union]

Season 5 will definitely have to be restructured, and I expect a lot to be cut and shuffled around, much more so than we have seen in the two and a half seasons so far. I'd agree that depending on the material in TWOW and ADOS, added to how the AFFC and ADWD material is handled, the show could very well conclude after its sixth season.

.

I agree that Season 5 will definitely have to be restructured, and most of FfC and aDwD cut. I just don't see how aDoS and tWoW could be molded into a single season. Unless George really goes off the deepend, or never finishes, loads things should happen between those two. Then again, I think it's possible that we'll never see DoS, so who knows.

[Ramsay Gimp]

It's a fairly disturbing detail that caricaturises Seleyse. Also, quite a bit of the episode wasn't in the books- the entire Stannis segment, the Loras scenes, Olaenna/Tyrion dialogue. And, in my opinion, all the added bits I've mentioned were terrible and in the case of Seleyse and Lora's, cringeworthy.

You are over reacting. It made Selyse more interesting, rather than the boring, shrill fanatic she is in the novels

[Pinkie Baelish]

You are over reacting. It made Selyse more interesting, rather than the boring, shrill fanatic she is in the novels

This. The only notable thing about Selyse in the books is that she has a moustache. That's it.

[Lord Godric]

This. The only notable thing about Selyse in the books is that she has a moustache. That's it.

and Florent ears.

[Dove]

In terms of tastefulness, Selyse's baby jars really weren't that much worse than Lysa still breastfeeding Robin at age nine or whatever for me. The latter is just immediately accepted because it's a detail from the books, IMO. Both are simply quick ways to demonstrate "whoa this character is more than a little unhinged" and to leave an immediate impression on the reader/watcher.

[1234567]

The babies in Jars seem like a slightly ham fisted get out clause for Gendry, when they try to burn him because of the King's blood and use the babies in jars instead. I guess they replace the leeches.

[Pinkie Baelish]

In terms of tastefulness, Selyse's baby jars really weren't that much worse than Lysa still breastfeeding Robin at age nine or whatever for me. The latter is just immediately accepted because it's a detail from the books, IMO. Both are simply quick ways to demonstrate "whoa this character is more than a little unhinged" and to leave an immediate impression on the reader/watcher.

Exactly. If Lysa breastfeeding Robin hadn't been in the books, it would have been blasted for being "triggering" and excessive. The show would be criticized for making her into a caricature(which she is in the books as well). People just like to bury their heads in the sand sometimes, it seems.

And I don't think the babies would be burnt. Wouldn't that count as kinslaying in a way, since Stannis would be burning his own flesh and blood? I'm thinking the leeches will be cut from the show, and Melisandre will look to create shadow babies with Gendry, but Davos will smuggle Gendry away before she has the chance to do so.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Holy thread revival batman.

Back when this thread was ablaze I tried to make a post, but the Westeros server was playing up so I gave up....

It goes to the tirade of comments about mysogyny about the line from Brienne "You're being a woman."

My post was to be that this was a taunt to make Jaime wake up to himself and mirrored an earlier line he had given her. Back after the capture, prior to the attempted rape when he was trying to convince her not to fight he says "If I were a woman I would try to get them to kill me, but I am not a woman thank the gods" (or something to that effect)

After he loses his hand, he gives up on life and attempts to goad them into killing him then trying a hunger strike. Brienne's response is 'You are being a woman' is a clear reference to the earlier line when he wouldn't succumb to that kind of behaviour. It is not about that the behaviour is what a woman would do or that woman are weak or stupid, it is quite clearly, purely throwing his own argument back in his face.