My theories so far

[mattishannon]

So there are lots of great conversations on this forum about theories, hopes for the series, or ideas that are wacky but might just be true. However it is really hard to join in these conversations without having things ruined for you. So i thoughts i would start a new conversation and see whether anyone else is up to the same point as I am.

Where I'm up to:

So I am up to date with the TV show, currently that is 4 episodes into season 3. More importantly I have read 500 pages of aCoK.

I've tried really hard to not to pick up to much from the future of the series unfortunately being out of sync with friends reading, being further ahead in the TV show and accidentally reading the back of book 5 i know a few things that I will list bellow as a spoiler.

There will be more bastards coming into play. Tyrion kills Tywin, thanks wife for changing the order of my books on shelf! People may have just lied in the first 2 books

My theories:

Jon is not Ned's?

I think the whole series is about him, a song of Ice and Fire must be the joining of Stark and Targaryn. There are lots of hints that Jon is Ned's blood but Ned himself never calls him his son. Plus the whole first book sets up Ned's honour. Add to that Ned's memory of Llyanna's death, that we read when he is in shackles and for me surely the deal is Llyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's parents. Ned seeing just how much of an ass Robert is to Targaryn children hid his nephew in plain site.

There are more Targaryn's?

I also have an idea that there are more Targaryn's out there, i can't fully remember, but i seem to remember the description of the murdered Targaryn children is them bound up and wrapped up. The old switcharo??

Also linked to this..

3 Dragons = 3 Targaryn's?

Could is be? Could there be 3 out there who will one day ride them into war again?

Is there something in the incest of Cersei and Jamie?

More and more i realise George R R Martin is a genius he writes in the smallest details that matter. Is there a chance somehow they are related to the Targaryn's.

Bran will end up important?

I have to be honest I get bored of him a lot. Thankfully he getting a little more interesting now, I have a sense that he will end up really important, i guess it depends how much he grows up during the series, but i think in some way he will get to be a knight and play at war.

Tyrion deserves the throne?

No one else plays the game so well, surely he deserves it.

Eventually the war between Mance and the north just won't matter?

I can't help but feel that although it is a fairly major plot point for now, in reality when those bloody zombie things start attacking the north the Brothers and the Mance crew are going to have a big love in, forgive each other and realise they can fight each other or turn against the north.

I have a few more thoughts, but I will leave it there for now. I would love to hear your thoughts? What do you think might happen?

Cheers,

M

[mattishannon]

p.s anyone have an idea why my spoiler code isn't working?

[Pinkie Baelish]

The spoiler tag needs to be in lower case. Otherwise, interesting predictions. Hope you enjoy the rest of the books :)

[mattishannon]

Cheers, still isn't working.

[Luthien Targaryen]

Hi Matt

I've read all the books but i'm going round for a second or third turn. I've been reading other threads in the main forums but people seem to be convinced of stuff that I think is purely conjecture and i'm not sure if this is because i've missed stuff or whether they're it's just because they're convinced they're right. You seem open minded, so i thought i'd start here.

I agree that Jon's not Ned's son, Lord Eddard Stark consorting with some alehouse floozy? Doesn't sound like him at all. However i'm not 100% sure he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's either. Lots of evidence to support that idea but in Ned's POV chapters he never thinks or says it to himself. Great writing trick I think but makes me uneasy. I also can't understand that if this was true why Ned would never have confided in Catelyn. It seems to be the only sour point in their marriage and would have made life far more comfortable for both Catelyn and Jon, both of whom Ned cares about. Would Catelyn have told Robert? i don't think so. I just need a little more convincing on that one. I'm not sure what difference it will make because as far as i know the only person who would still be around to tell Jon would be Howland Reed, and he hasn't shown up yet...

More Targaryens? I think so, i won't say who i suspect because i don't recall which book i got the evidence from. I'm not sure if you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon either, but hey, that might answer the Jon question.

Jaime and Cersei? I dunno, i think Cersei is so close to Tywin in character i can't doubt her paternity.

Bran as a major player? I agree, that kid is destined for big things. And what's Rikkon gonna do?

Tyrion deserves the throne?

Deserves maybe, but wants it i doubt. Besides, i think Littlefinger, Cersei and Varys could give him a run for his money as masters of the Game. In terms of pseudo legal claims i guess Stannis deserves it, i'm not a huge fan of his, although i do love Davos and Stannis has grown on me since i saw him on TV, as it were. If i had the choice i'd pick Dany i'm afraid, or Varys, they seem the best qualified for the job in my mind. But hey, Westeros isn't a democracy.

Eventually the war between Mance and the north just won't matter?

I disagree, i think it's the other way around, i think that if the stuff beyond the wall is as bad as it seems the war for the Iron Throne won't matter. This might be where Bran comes into his own.

[mattishannon]

Hi Luthien,

Thanks for the reply! Well done for not letting stuff slip from future books!!

Regarding Cersei, could there be an argument there for nature/nurture.

Her natural inbuilt wants is close the Targaryen's but her nurture has made her like Tywin??

[Luthien Targaryen]

Ummmmmm, interesting, i'm in danger of giving some of the game away with my counter argument, but if Cersei is a Targaryen then so is Jaime and i think that Tywin is too fond of Jaime for Jaime to have dubious paternity. Alternatively i'm not totally knowledgeable of family trees, i know Tywin married his Lannister cousin, Joanna and that Tywin's father was a Tygett Lannister or something but i can't remember who Tywin's mother was. I'm not sure that anybody has ever mentioned Tywin's grandmothers, one of them could be a Targaryen.

On the other hand, reading around on the internet has sort of pushed me towards buying the "Jon: son of Lyanna and Rheagar" theory. It's interesting, i'd assumed that characters would be honest with themselves , and the reader if no-one else within their POV chapters, but having finished "Game" for the second or third time i'm noticing a bit of economy with the truth. Ned never really recalls anything between defeating the Kingsguard and Lyanna dying, selective recall? And Catelyn herself has been very cagey about her relationship with young Littlefinger...Who do you trust? Tyrion i think.

[Woftis]

*tries really hard not to say anything*

[BlackBrother55]

So there are lots of great conversations on this forum about theories, hopes for the series, or ideas that are wacky but might just be true. However it is really hard to join in these conversations without having things ruined for you. So i thoughts i would start a new conversation and see whether anyone else is up to the same point as I am.

Where I'm up to:

So I am up to date with the TV show, currently that is 4 episodes into season 3. More importantly I have read 500 pages of aCoK.

I've tried really hard to not to pick up to much from the future of the series unfortunately being out of sync with friends reading, being further ahead in the TV show and accidentally reading the back of book 5 i know a few things that I will list bellow as a spoiler.

There will be more bastards coming into play. Tyrion kills Tywin, thanks wife for changing the order of my books on shelf! People may have just lied in the first 2 books

My theories:

Jon is not Ned's?

I think the whole series is about him, a song of Ice and Fire must be the joining of Stark and Targaryn. There are lots of hints that Jon is Ned's blood but Ned himself never calls him his son. Plus the whole first book sets up Ned's honour. Add to that Ned's memory of Llyanna's death, that we read when he is in shackles and for me surely the deal is Llyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's parents. Ned seeing just how much of an ass Robert is to Targaryn children hid his nephew in plain site.

There are more Targaryn's?

I also have an idea that there are more Targaryn's out there, i can't fully remember, but i seem to remember the description of the murdered Targaryn children is them bound up and wrapped up. The old switcharo??

Also linked to this..

3 Dragons = 3 Targaryn's?

Could is be? Could there be 3 out there who will one day ride them into war again?

Is there something in the incest of Cersei and Jamie?

More and more i realise George R R Martin is a genius he writes in the smallest details that matter. Is there a chance somehow they are related to the Targaryn's.

Bran will end up important?

I have to be honest I get bored of him a lot. Thankfully he getting a little more interesting now, I have a sense that he will end up really important, i guess it depends how much he grows up during the series, but i think in some way he will get to be a knight and play at war.

Tyrion deserves the throne?

No one else plays the game so well, surely he deserves it.

Eventually the war between Mance and the north just won't matter?

I can't help but feel that although it is a fairly major plot point for now, in reality when those bloody zombie things start attacking the north the Brothers and the Mance crew are going to have a big love in, forgive each other and realise they can fight each other or turn against the north.

I have a few more thoughts, but I will leave it there for now. I would love to hear your thoughts? What do you think might happen?

Cheers,

M

Actually I think personally that Jon is the product of incest between Ned and Lyanna. Thats why he tries to be so honorable-because in the past he did a very dishourable thing and every day he sees Jon and is reminded of it.

[MidnightAurora]

I like your theories and some I agree with. I have watched the 1st two season sof the show and a few of the current season and I am currently reading the 2nd book in the series. I believe there are more Targaryns out there maybe not full blooded like Dany is msot they have a link to the line through an ancenstor or something. Example (Baretheon's grandmother or someone was a Targaryn and the Baretheon line was also in charge of finding most of the brides for the targaryn Princes.). I have read and interpreted that the Dragons can only be mounted and listened to if one has Targaryn blood in them as when people describe the past events and how the Targaryns mounted their dragons or let their dragons loose and it would be so easy for the tide to have turned if the enemies were able to control the dragons if the dragons listened to their comands, but it is very likely the dragons only listen to the commands of a Targaryn or one with Targaryn blood.

I agree 3 dragons equals 3 mounts meanign there has to be other people out there with targaryn blood in them.

I think Jon Snow's parents are Lynanna and a Targaryn. In Book 1, when Ned is in a cell or it might have been before when he was dreaming of the time he last saw his sister and the battle of 7 against 3. he stated he made a promise to her that had cost him dearly. I am thinking it is naming Jon as his bastard to protect Jon in more ways then one. When he was in the cell he thought of Jon and how he needed to talk to him and explain things to him. (Bran and Rickon both dreamed of Eddard and of him in the secret cave or soemthing in the crypts). I am thinking there is something or a mulitude of importance below Winterfell not only for Jon, but he Stark line and knowledge.

I am also thinking the Weirwood trees are important and wil play a major role and that seems like it is always the safest place for the Starks because they honor the old gods not the new.

Tyrion (it never stated what happened to the scrolls he boroowed on dragons from the Winterfell Library so not sure if he still has it). I think he will finally turn his back on his family for bing idiots and treating him poorly when he tried to help them and his knowledge of things may come into play later especially when it comes to Dragons and controlling them etc..

Martin also likes to play misdirection it seems and put in little tidbits that seem random, but come of importance later.

I am only in Book 2 but I do not trust the red preistess one iota and think she is bad same with her God. Especially after reading the history behind the sword she claims is Lightbringer.

That got me thinking on one of Jon's dreams where he is dreaming of him wielding a greatsword and thinking it is ICE and rescuing his father and feels shame because ICE goes to Robb. I also was notiing another dream where he returns to Winterfell and the halls are empty and he is being beckoned to the crypts of Winterfell. I have a theory he will find his own truth and destiny in those crypts. Then that got me thinking on Gendry and his skills meaning his skills would be put to use in forging a greatsword or reforging one lost.

I also have a theory people in the background are playing a chess game lining up pieces for some big play, but they are forgetting the Wall and the very North. Which I think is where the main event(s) will happen...

More theories to add as I read the book.

This might be a post for book 1, but has anyone noticed that int he dream where Ned is fighting the 3 kingsguard that 1. They knew Ned was Lyanna's sister, so why fight at all against him? 2. Why were 3 of the kingsguard guarding Lyanna or were they protecting her? If they were guarding/protecting her why not protect Elia and her children? 4. It seems liek the best of the kingsguard at the time were guarding Lyanna.. Which made me think after reading a comment Arya made and that Knights are suppose to protect Ladies and she could reveal herself to them and hey could take her home. If the knights were protecting her for what purpose and why fight her brother and not just tell him? She was in a castle on the Island of Dorne where Elia is from which made me even more why she was there and the Martells ethiher knew or did not know, but how did she get there and why put her in that place? It would make Jon a child of Fire (Targaryn) and Ice (Stark). I was also thinking that the fire and Ice could mean the dragons and the wolves meaning they are both needed in order to fight the others.

I think Mel(sorry cannot spell her name) is bad, and I think she is connected to the Others more than the ancient old Gods because R'Hollor likes blood and sacrafice which aligns more with the Others and what they require not what the children of the forest and the old gods require. Fire and Ic could mean the dragons and wolves comign together to fight the magical beings. (Hence a song of Fire and Ice= song of dragon and the howling of the wolves coming together. )

More theories to come.

[MidnightAurora]

I think Rickon is destined to be one bad a.. Knight/Warrior and destroy those who have brought harm to his family..

He is strong like a stark, but hopefully his heart will not harden to turn him bad. Rickon will probably fulfill what Bran could not do and become a great Knight to defend his family and help restore Winterfell. I think Bran will help guide him along with Osha. However, Rickon is vulnerable because he has ha the least time with his family and could be easily turned if not guided properly.

[MidnightAurora]

When King Robert was alive did he live years with guilt? It seems like Robert always had a knack for battle and was a fearsome soldier and prior he seemed to be happy and drank and still be fit, but after he won the crown I am wondering if he had some sort of guilt that led him to overindulge in Food and drink. We all know he did not love Cersei and Robert looked upon all of his bastard children and as children do they know if something is not right that is why Joffrey as a baby cried when he picked him up and the bastards smiled. I am also wondering if it is something else and even though Eddard was a loyal friend to Robert Eddard did not see his friends for 15 years not even a letter it seems and I am also curious about that. I am curious as to why the Starks stayed in Winterfell and the North and seemed to be aloof to the workings of King Landing and did not appear to visit Riverrun or the Vale and does anyone else find that odd? Anyways here are my theories-- Eddard stayed away from Robert so he could keep Robert from finding out Jon is really Lyanna's and since Eddard cannot lie he stays away rather than lie to Robert especially about the promise Eddard made to Lyanna on her deathbed. In the books we know Robert is capable of remorse and has a good heart when he cannot look at certain things and even though he cannot stand Cersei he was remorseful for striking her. After reading a certain part in ACOK where Dany sees Rhaegar dying on the trident and whispers a woman's name i am assuming it is Lyanna's name, but something happened on the Trident that struck Robert to lead him to be guilt ridden did Rhaegar say something to Robert? It just seems to me like Robert after the war seemed to be way too guiltridden and not just over losing Lyanna. Next has anyone else noticed that in different character's recollections of events Eddard seems to be everywhere during the battle? He was at King's Landing and forced Jaime to unseat the throne, He was at the Tower of Joy to rescue Lyanna, He returned to Dorne to return the greatsword, He lifted the seige on Storm's End, He helped on the Trident. in all the recollections Eddard was everywhere and Robert was on the Trident. I am trying to piece together all the timelines and some overlap which does not make sense as how Eddard could be in all these places and it seemed like Eddard did all the battle and heavy lifting for Robert. I am also trying to calculate where Robert and Eddard were at various points before the Robert's Rebellion some state he was in the Vale others it makes it seem like he was at Winterfell. Who forged Eddard's greatsword and who taught him how to wield it? Anyone else notice that most of the Stark children have encountered a living Targaryn or one of Targaryn blood? Aemon is intriguing and can read Jon quite well and even the forger of Robert's warhammer. More thoughts and theories to come. It appears Jaime is more truthful when sober and as he got drunker with Catelyn became more sly and forming his stories and lies mixed with truth. I noticed Jaime did not mention that 3 of the Kingsguard were absence during the time Brandon Stark came to King's Landing. If Jaime is to be believed it appears Brandon was the more impulsive of the 2 brothers. I wonder what would have happened if Brandon went to Riverrun first instead of King's Landing. Hoster Tully was still able and could have helped gather his bannermen and the north and plan things. How did Hoster Tully even meet the Starks to make a match? Anyone find it interesting that when Brandon went to King's Landing he went with most of the heirs to certain houses and requested their fathers to come to King's Landing. If their sons are captured for no good reason why respond to the summons and not plan ahead? In Book 1 King Aerys specifically asked Jon Arryn to bring Robert and Eddard to King's Landing as the 2 were wards of Jon Arryn and Jon refused, so why didn't the other people refuse to go as well? It appears whoever was whispering and furthering his delusions were targeting certain houses and heirs.

I am assuming Barristan Selmy is with Dany as he is not with Renly, Robb, nor Stannis and Renly stated he was going to go find the real king and since he is not with the 3 of them I am assuming he is off to see Dany since her brother is dead.

The voice Varys heard--- could that have been the fire god Mel and others worship? That whole ritual reminded of what they did on Supernatural where a demon slits the throat of a victim and drains the blood into a cup to "communicate" with someone down below. Varys is a sly one as you can never trust what he says fully.

More thoughts and theories to come as I read..

An interesting quote:-- Arya heard her father's voice " You are Arya Stark.. when the lone wolf dies the pack survives." I am assuming Eddard is the lone wolf because he was the last in his family and his children (pact) survive without him.

[MidnightAurora]

I think a lot of characters are lying about certain events past, present to suit their own needs. I do not trust any of the Lannisters, Varys, Littlefinger, Boltons etc..

I think Old Nan's stories have some truth to them as we have seen so far that some of the stories have turned out to have some truth and have helped the Stark children in different ways.

[Sordelor]

Ummmmmm, interesting, i'm in danger of giving some of the game away with my counter argument, but if Cersei is a Targaryen then so is Jaime and i think that Tywin is too fond of Jaime for Jaime to have dubious paternity. Alternatively i'm not totally knowledgeable of family trees, i know Tywin married his Lannister cousin, Joanna and that Tywin's father was a Tygett Lannister or something but i can't remember who Tywin's mother was.

Tywin's father was named Tytos, Tygett is his brother, and it's never mentioned who his mother was.

[MidnightAurora]

Catelyn stated Eddard was very protective of Lyanna or so she recalled and she remembers Eddard being fiercely protective of Jon. In the long run it appears Catelyn did Jon a favor by forcing Eddard to give into his wishes and send him to the Wall. I am still wondering if the Kingsguard knew who Lyanna was then they knew Eddard was her brother so why fight him? What promise would Eddard have made Lyanna that have cost him dearly? Also what happened on the Trident when Rhaegar was dying that might have caused something to Robert that he may appear to be guiltridden with something?

From the family tree we know the Baretheon family have Targaryn blood through an ancestor as well as goddess' blood if the story of how storm's end was built is to be believed.

Dany stated to Jorah that Dany was related to a certain relative line that was directed through an ancestor connected with one of the riders of the dragons (I will have to find the passage again in the book to be more precise), which makes me think maybe the other two riders could be linked through other Targaryn ancestory.

There is something important about the crypts of Winterfell and what better place for Eddard to place the importance/ truth of Jon then in the crypts because no one would find it as

no one is able to find Bran, Rickon, Reeds, Osha and the wolves when they "disappeared"

In book 1 Rickon and Bran dreamt they saw their father in the depths and darkness of the crypts meaning something is down there of various importance. I think as long as the crypts remain stuff is safe and sound.

[MidnightAurora]

Maybe its because I am just now finished with book 2 and I do not see what the others on other posts see or read regarding Jon and Robb and how both are arrogant etc.. like these 2 are the bad guys that I am not seeing and they are selfish/idiots. I am not seeing it. It seems to me like others are taking people's recollection to heart that we know cannot be trusted while condensing trustworthy ones with their stories/thoughts/opinions. Anyone else get that vibe? I am not trusting Jaime fully nor any of the Lannisters because all have proven to be quite untrustworthy same with Varys, LF and others as well as their actions are sketchy and on other forums people take these people for truth and I am not seeing it. Robb could have traded Jaime for Sansa which is a bargain and could have made an alliance through her with other houses, but I am not seeing how it would have worked because cersei pretty much stated she would not release Sansa on any terms and wanted Tyrion to find another way to release him. She pretty much made that fact known for other as well as a way to keep their houses in check. (ex: Redwyne Twins), so it appears even if he offered he still would not have gotten Sansa back so I do not see how this makes him an idiot? Does anyone else see what I am supposedly not seeing and could maybe explain and provide reasons/examples of such? I liek this forum as people do not seem to get as heated as on other posts. I want to tell people it is forum for opinions and theories and everyone has their own and not for people to shut down others and state they are wrong and they are right.

[Gramsci]

Actually I think personally that Jon is the product of incest between Ned and Lyanna. Thats why he tries to be so honorable-because in the past he did a very dishourable thing and every day he sees Jon and is reminded of it.

I cannot at all see this being the case. There are multiple references made to Ned Stark's honorable nature even prior to his marriage with Catelyn, and consequently before he would have an opportunity to commit incest.

If incest is going to occur within this particular story arc, I think it is far more likely that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that in due time he may end up in some sort of relationship with Daenerys. Part of me wants to see this happen, simply because it would be interesting, and another part of me would find it strange; Martin loves to make a game out of societal perceptions on things like incest, but I don't think he would play that game here.

[MidnightAurora]

Hi Matt

I've read all the books but i'm going round for a second or third turn. I've been reading other threads in the main forums but people seem to be convinced of stuff that I think is purely conjecture and i'm not sure if this is because i've missed stuff or whether they're it's just because they're convinced they're right. You seem open minded, so i thought i'd start here.

I agree that Jon's not Ned's son, Lord Eddard Stark consorting with some alehouse floozy? Doesn't sound like him at all. However i'm not 100% sure he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's either. Lots of evidence to support that idea but in Ned's POV chapters he never thinks or says it to himself. Great writing trick I think but makes me uneasy. I also can't understand that if this was true why Ned would never have confided in Catelyn. It seems to be the only sour point in their marriage and would have made life far more comfortable for both Catelyn and Jon, both of whom Ned cares about. Would Catelyn have told Robert? i don't think so. I just need a little more convincing on that one. I'm not sure what difference it will make because as far as i know the only person who would still be around to tell Jon would be Howland Reed, and he hasn't shown up yet...

More Targaryens? I think so, i won't say who i suspect because i don't recall which book i got the evidence from. I'm not sure if you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon either, but hey, that might answer the Jon question.

Jaime and Cersei? I dunno, i think Cersei is so close to Tywin in character i can't doubt her paternity.

Bran as a major player? I agree, that kid is destined for big things. And what's Rikkon gonna do?

Tyrion deserves the throne?

Deserves maybe, but wants it i doubt. Besides, i think Littlefinger, Cersei and Varys could give him a run for his money as masters of the Game. In terms of pseudo legal claims i guess Stannis deserves it, i'm not a huge fan of his, although i do love Davos and Stannis has grown on me since i saw him on TV, as it were. If i had the choice i'd pick Dany i'm afraid, or Varys, they seem the best qualified for the job in my mind. But hey, Westeros isn't a democracy.

Eventually the war between Mance and the north just won't matter?

I disagree, i think it's the other way around, i think that if the stuff beyond the wall is as bad as it seems the war for the Iron Throne won't matter. This might be where Bran comes into his own.

I agree, I have read and participated in other forums, but found that a lot seem to be stuck on one thing or another and they are right and everyone else is wrong even when proof is give. This thread seems to be mor eopen minded.

It also gathers theories that if Rhagear married Cersei, or a sister he would never have been in love with Lyanna. I would doubt this as if Rhaegar was at all interested in Cersei he would have shown it when Tywin presented her to him. Same with if he had sister. i think he liked Lyanna for different reasons. A part of Rhagear's background story makes me think he would like Lyanna based on things like he enjoys the night/moon just like a wolf (i.e. STark.) he plays the harp and very musically talented which reminded me of the story Ygritte said of Bael the Bard.

I definitely think Jon is not Ned's based on the timelines between his wedding to Catelyn, the War and where he was at various times does not correlate with things since Robb and Jon are of the same age.

[MidnightAurora]

Hi Matt

I've read all the books but i'm going round for a second or third turn. I've been reading other threads in the main forums but people seem to be convinced of stuff that I think is purely conjecture and i'm not sure if this is because i've missed stuff or whether they're it's just because they're convinced they're right. You seem open minded, so i thought i'd start here.

I agree that Jon's not Ned's son, Lord Eddard Stark consorting with some alehouse floozy? Doesn't sound like him at all. However i'm not 100% sure he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's either. Lots of evidence to support that idea but in Ned's POV chapters he never thinks or says it to himself. Great writing trick I think but makes me uneasy. I also can't understand that if this was true why Ned would never have confided in Catelyn. It seems to be the only sour point in their marriage and would have made life far more comfortable for both Catelyn and Jon, both of whom Ned cares about. Would Catelyn have told Robert? i don't think so. I just need a little more convincing on that one. I'm not sure what difference it will make because as far as i know the only person who would still be around to tell Jon would be Howland Reed, and he hasn't shown up yet...

More Targaryens? I think so, i won't say who i suspect because i don't recall which book i got the evidence from. I'm not sure if you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon either, but hey, that might answer the Jon question.

Jaime and Cersei? I dunno, i think Cersei is so close to Tywin in character i can't doubt her paternity.

Bran as a major player? I agree, that kid is destined for big things. And what's Rikkon gonna do?

Tyrion deserves the throne?

Deserves maybe, but wants it i doubt. Besides, i think Littlefinger, Cersei and Varys could give him a run for his money as masters of the Game. In terms of pseudo legal claims i guess Stannis deserves it, i'm not a huge fan of his, although i do love Davos and Stannis has grown on me since i saw him on TV, as it were. If i had the choice i'd pick Dany i'm afraid, or Varys, they seem the best qualified for the job in my mind. But hey, Westeros isn't a democracy.

Eventually the war between Mance and the north just won't matter?

I disagree, i think it's the other way around, i think that if the stuff beyond the wall is as bad as it seems the war for the Iron Throne won't matter. This might be where Bran comes into his own.

I agree it is the other way around soon the game will not matter, but the War between the others. The series is a Song of Fire and Ice and only the first book is in reference to a Game of Thrones.

Ned does ponder in his POV chapter in AGOT about what Cat would do to the children not born of her and what would do of Jon and did not want to find out. I think he never mentioned it to her because Catelyn we don't know if she would have changed her attitude or what she would have done if she knew the truth. I can speculate that she might have been understanding and did her duty, but wouldn't that be cause for suspcion if she started treating the bstard more motherly?? I think her treating him that way kept up the secret Ned needed to keep. Actually their marriage had two issues, one is Jon who she believed was his bastard and never seemed to want to discuss the mother. The second is Ned's brother Brandon. Catelyn knew him and loved him and proably always will and her she is having to marry a complete stranger.

If I had to choose I would say either Tyrion or Varys deserves the throne not like I would want either on the throne though. I read something spoilerish that I will not divulge here but I find it interesting that everytime we see a weirwood in POV the character describes what they look like. Could this be important or just random description?? The most notble difference is the one in KL with the thousand eyes..

I also had a theory about Dany's dragons and whose spirit inhabits each of the dragons. I can not say for Rhageal or Viserion, but Drogon seems to have Drogo and Rhageo's spirit. He is the one who is most protective of Dany and always around her. He is the first to learn how to climb, fly and breathe fire. He also seems to be the biggest and baddest of the three. Like the direwolves they can sense trouble and try to warn her. I am still wondering how Drogon figured out what needed to be done in HOTU.

[Sordelor]

IGNORE TIS POST888 I DIDN4T FINISH ADWD WHEN IWROTE TIS

I agree it is the other way around soon the game will not matter, but the War between the others. The series is a Song of Fire and Ice and only the first book is in reference to a Game of Thrones.

Ned does ponder in his POV chapter in AGOT about what Cat would do to the children not born of her and what would do of Jon and did not want to find out. I think he never mentioned it to her because Catelyn we don't know if she would have changed her attitude or what she would have done if she knew the truth. I can speculate that she might have been understanding and did her duty, but wouldn't that be cause for suspcion if she started treating the bstard more motherly?? I think her treating him that way kept up the secret Ned needed to keep. Actually their marriage had two issues, one is Jon who she believed was his bastard and never seemed to want to discuss the mother. The second is Ned's brother Brandon. Catelyn knew him and loved him and proably always will and her she is having to marry a complete stranger.

If I had to choose I would say either Tyrion or Varys deserves the throne not like I would want either on the throne though. I read something spoilerish that I will not divulge here but I find it interesting that everytime we see a weirwood in POV the character describes what they look like. Could this be important or just random description?? The most notble difference is the one in KL with the thousand eyes..

I also had a theory about Dany's dragons and whose spirit inhabits each of the dragons. I can not say for Rhageal or Viserion, but Drogon seems to have Drogo and Rhageo's spirit. He is the one who is most protective of Dany and always around her. He is the first to learn how to climb, fly and breathe fire. He also seems to be the biggest and baddest of the three. Like the direwolves they can sense trouble and try to warn her. I am still wondering how Drogon figured out what needed to be done in HOTU.

About what you said about Drogon:how do you explane that

in adwd he was the one that flee away from Dany.