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Best Fighter in Westeros?


BeWareOfMyHouse

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Aye- Either Jaime or Barristan (can't recall) at one point muse that the best Knight in Westeros isn't necessarily the best fighter in Westeros: That there's Northmen and Ironborn who could easily crush most Knights. Victarion Greyjoy and the Greatjon are obvious examples of those non-knight warlords... That precisely because Ironborn and Northmen don't take part in them, knightly contests of skill might not really be showing the best fighters in Westeros: The best swordsman could easily be a northman or an ironborn and the knights of westeros would never know about it.

I think it's Barristan who thinks it, 'cause he gives much more thought to knightly virtues and prowess than Jaime does.

As we see with Joff and Robb in AGoT, the high lords visit each other and spar all the time. While its possible that a non-knight could be the best swordsman, it's unlikely that we wouldn't know about it. Jaime thinks about how strong the GreatJon is when he's fighting Brienne, meaning he's tested it at some point.

The people of Westeros know who the best fighters are. In AGoT, it's Jaime.

Post-AFFC/ADWD, it's more of a toss up. Garlan is probably near the top, but Yohn Royce, Lyn Corbray, Balon Swann and maybe a few others are all in the discussion.

The Hound seems to have a pretty bad leg injury, so he's out too.

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I never said he wasn't allowed to be a contender. I just said that saying "So-and-So won a lot of battles, so he must've been a great individual fighter" was illogical. Robert Baratheon won a ton of battles, but he was also an individual fighter of almost legendary skill. That being said, Robert's dead. The purpose of the thread was to discuss the best fighter in Westeros post-AFFC and post-ADWD, but apparently "It's been done a million times", so I guess the thing is moot now. I'm not concerned with the best fighter ever, like Jaime pre-maiming or Robert Baratheon. I was just asking who people thought was the best, currently.

But Victarion has been shown to be a very martial man who actually takes part in raids and battles. He's definitely on my list.

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Sandor, Bienne, Mance. I think Mance is very underrated. He didn't become king beyond the wall without being a bamf.

GRRM's writing implies that Mance is a truly amazing swordsman. He doesn't describe anyone else in the same light, so I'd think him. It's funny how very few people have said this so far

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It's hard to say. I agree that knights get more fame because of tourneys etc. Nevertheless, at some point I'd bet Jaime and Selmy. But one is maimed and the other is apparently getting too old.

Mance should be considered. I was also impressed by Vic's prowess in battle, and I don't think it's mentioned he's the best ironborn or anything, so we should consider them.

We don't really have all the data to have a final answer.

People pick Garlan because Loras said his brother was better than him. So what? Loras lost to Brienne, didn't he? And it's pretty clear Jaime would destroy her in normal conditions. So Loras is not nearly as good as people say, Garlan being better than him doesn't mean that much.

The same goes to Mance Rayder. He beat Jon easily, yes, but so what? It's not like Jon is that good anyway. He says he was better than Robb, but Robb had to sweat to beat a younger Joffrey. Mance is probably very good, but so far I think it's impossible to say if he would be on par with a Jaime or a Barristan Selmy.

So all in all, I guess the only two we could really say were top notch are Jaime and Selmy.

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It's hard to say. I agree that knights get more fame because of tourneys etc. Nevertheless, at some point I'd bet Jaime and Selmy. But one is maimed and the other is apparently getting too old.

Mance should be considered. I was also impressed by Vic's prowess in battle, and I don't think it's mentioned he's the best ironborn or anything, so we should consider them.

We don't really have all the data to have a final answer.

People pick Garlan because Loras said his brother was better than him. So what? Loras lost to Brienne, didn't he? And it's pretty clear Jaime would destroy her in normal conditions. So Loras is not nearly as good as people say, Garlan being better than him doesn't mean that much.

The same goes to Mance Rayder. He beat Jon easily, yes, but so what? It's not like Jon is that good anyway. He says he was better than Robb, but Robb had to sweat to beat a younger Joffrey. Mance is probably very good, but so far I think it's impossible to say if he would be on par with a Jaime or a Barristan Selmy.

So all in all, I guess the only two we could really say were top notch are Jaime and Selmy.

You have a point, but IMO GRRM's description of Mance fighting makes it sound like he is a mofakkin beast. I dont recall him describing anyone as better than the way he describes Mance, but also this could be biased because of Jon's point of view. Jon is a good swordsman but I don't think he's that great so of course he'd be very very impressed by a fighter like Mance

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You have a point, but IMO GRRM's description of Mance fighting makes it sound like he is a mofakkin beast. I dont recall him describing anyone as better than the way he describes Mance, but also this could be biased because of Jon's point of view. Jon is a good swordsman but I don't think he's that great so of course he'd be very very impressed by a fighter like Mance

Jon is a fifteen year old boy who has spent the last year fighting untrained thieves. There's very little to indicate that he's anything above average in swordsmanship. He's no Jaime Lannister.

Mance did to him what pretty much every knight (including people like Meryn Trant) or trained adult male in Westeros would do. Jon was only surprised because he overestimates his own swordsmanship.

Edit: And why is Victarion being brought up? He got outdueled and maimed by Talbert Serry.

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It's hard to say. I agree that knights get more fame because of tourneys etc. Nevertheless, at some point I'd bet Jaime and Selmy. But one is maimed and the other is apparently getting too old.

Mance should be considered. I was also impressed by Vic's prowess in battle, and I don't think it's mentioned he's the best ironborn or anything, so we should consider them.

We don't really have all the data to have a final answer.

People pick Garlan because Loras said his brother was better than him. So what? Loras lost to Brienne, didn't he? And it's pretty clear Jaime would destroy her in normal conditions. So Loras is not nearly as good as people say, Garlan being better than him doesn't mean that much.

The same goes to Mance Rayder. He beat Jon easily, yes, but so what? It's not like Jon is that good anyway. He says he was better than Robb, but Robb had to sweat to beat a younger Joffrey. Mance is probably very good, but so far I think it's impossible to say if he would be on par with a Jaime or a Barristan Selmy.

So all in all, I guess the only two we could really say were top notch are Jaime and Selmy.

The OP asked who the best was excluding Jaime and Selmy.
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Jon is a fifteen year old boy who has spent the last several years fighting untrained thieves. There's very little to indicate that he's anything above average in swordsmanship. He's no Jaime Lannister.

Mance did to him what pretty much every knight (including people like Meryn Trant) or trained adult male in Westeros would do. Jon was only surprised because he overestimates his own swordsmanship.

Being trained by a master at arms in a castle most definitely means he's above average swordsmanship. You do realize the majority of soldiers are just farmhands and shit like that right?

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Jon is a fifteen year old boy who has spent the last several years fighting untrained thieves. There's very little to indicate that he's anything above average in swordsmanship. He's no Jaime Lannister.

Mance did to him what pretty much every knight (including people like Meryn Trant) or trained adult male in Westeros would do. Jon was only surprised because he overestimates his own swordsmanship.

My point about Mance had nothing to do about how easily he beats Jon, but rather that a crow became king beyond the wall. Do you realize how hard that makes Mance?
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Being trained by a master at arms in a castle most definitely means he's above average swordsmanship. You do realize the majority of soldiers are just farmhands and shit like that right?

I was comparing him to other nobles. Obviously he could beat people that are untrained, as he's been doing at the wall for the last two years.

My point about Mance had nothing to do about how easily he beats Jon, but rather that a crow became king beyond the wall. Do you realize how hard that makes Mance?

No, I absolutely agree with this. I think Mance is very likely a monster of a fighter, but not because of his fight with Jon. I honestly don't even think he was trying against Jon. My post was in response to RedDead, not you.

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My guess is that it is probably Garland Tyrell, but in time it will be Loras or Jaime once more.

He is called Garlan the Gallant, because he needed a name to distinguish him from his uncle. Garlan the Gross. Jaime was the best before his maiming, At the time of AFFC, probably Garlan out of those we know, though Loras seems to be the more gifted swordsman and when he comes into his full manhood will surpass him.

His uncle is Garth the Gross not Garlan.

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Not only did he try to take the top of a little girl's head, he failed to do so. His ego is so over the top it's ridiculous.

I find him an interesting character and I think he was meant miss and not kill Myrcella for some reason.

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