(Book spoilers) Lena Headey appreciation thread

[The Dragon has three heads]

Want to Marry.

Her expletive laden audio commentary and sheer passion for the role couldn't be any hotter.

So there.

[ChromeWeasel]

I think it's a stretch to assume that everyone is completely sympathetic to her by the end of the walk. It would take much more than her suffering shame for a few minutes for me to have even the tiniest bit of sympathy for her character. That being said, I think it's cool she won't due the nudity, and frankly, I think the nudity is over the top in the show anyway, so the less, the better. I think they can come up with something equally humiliating without having her nude.

I don't understand the sympathy for Cersei's walk of shame at all. She's a vile person by then, who has committed several innocents to torture and murder. She lives in a web of lies and corruption that has ruined the lives of dozens of people close to her. Most of it intentionally for reasons no more important than her pride. She's just about as reprehensible a person as you can get by the time of her walk.

And her punishment is to get shaved and walk naked in front of the commoners, while under the protection of the military. That's a joke. I would do that to win a drunken bet for free, never mind getting out of prison after being involved in murders, torture, and high crimes against the state.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can think of that as real punishment. Real punishment in the medieval period included things like crucifixion, rat torture, the breast ripper, the brank, the pear of anguish, etc... Look some of those things up to see what really punishments were vetted out against women in medieval Europe. I realize that most people wont know about all these things in specifics, but don't people realize how brutal justice was in medieval time overall? The walk of shame is such an easy contrition for a murderer that I can't wrap my head around any reasonable person feeling sympathy for Cersei. The whole reason that the punishment works for Cersei is because she is so narcissistic and vain as to be borderline insane.

Edited to add that Lena Hedey is awesome and killing this role.

[Winterz]

She's an amazing actress and is portraying Cersei very well.

I find it ridiculous that people criticize her because she hasn't read the books nor does she show any interest in ever reading them.

She is portraying the script Cersei, not the books Cersei. If you think she's portraying Cersei very differently blame the script writters not Lena. She's doing a fine job.

It's an adaptation, not a translation.

[jons nissa]

I don't understand the sympathy for Cersei's walk of shame at all. She's a vile person by then, who has committed several innocents to torture and murder. She lives in a web of lies and corruption that has ruined the lives of dozens of people close to her. Most of it intentionally for reasons no more important than her pride. She's just about as reprehensible a person as you can get by the time of her walk.

And her punishment is to get shaved and walk naked in front of the commoners, while under the protection of the military. That's a joke. I would do that to win a drunken bet for free, never mind getting out of prison after being involved in murders, torture, and high crimes against the state.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can think of that as real punishment. Real punishment in the medieval period included things like crucifixion, rat torture, the breast ripper, the brank, the pear of anguish, etc... Look some of those things up to see what really punishments were vetted out against women in medieval Europe.

probably because it was a punishment used on high born women in the middle ages:

George Martin:

That was an interesting chapter to write, and based on actual medieval events. Jane Shore, mistress of King Edward IV, was punished that way after Edward died. It wasn’t a punishment ever inflicted on men.

cersei's thoughts during the event:

"I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they’ve seen, they’ve seen, they’ve seen. I should never have let them see. Gowned and crowned, she was a queen. Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman, not so very different from their wives, more like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done?"

[Toxspecific]

The looks she gives Tyrion are so hot.

[ChromeWeasel]

probably because it was a punishment used on high born women in the middle ages:

George Martin:

That was an interesting chapter to write, and based on actual medieval events. Jane Shore, mistress of King Edward IV, was punished that way after Edward died. It wasn’t a punishment ever inflicted on men.

cersei's thoughts during the event:

"I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they’ve seen, they’ve seen, they’ve seen. I should never have let them see. Gowned and crowned, she was a queen. Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman, not so very different from their wives, more like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done?"

My point is that as far as punishments go, the walk of shame is a joke. It's a drunken bet, not torture. It doesn't make me sympathize with a murderer and torturer of innocents. It actually makes me more resentful of her character, because something so relatively easy to do is what breaks her. The walk of shame is not suffering to a well balanced human being. Cersei suffers dramatically during the walk because she's that vain. Her looks and youth were the only thing about her of any worth, and that's pathetic. If anything, the walk was a good thing for Cersei. She's getting off very easy so far.

By comparison, Theon undergoes real torture, humiliation, and suffering. He's suffered more for his crimes than anyone needs to. He's actually become a sympathetic character in his own arc. Jamie to a lesser extent is also maimed and mutilated permanently. Not to mention being held in a dirty cell and malnourished. I can see sympathy for people who suffer this kind of pain and suffering. This is far different from a mildly embarrassing naked walk, which has no long-term or permanent physical harm.

[Stannisfan]

Love her and loved her dress this week. Find her hair very distracting though. It is so long I just keep thinking it would be impossible to grow it that long at keep it in good condition, especially when she clearly has the curling tongs on it every day.

[jons nissa]

My point is that as far as punishments go, the walk of shame is a joke. It's a drunken bet, not torture. It doesn't make me sympathize with a murderer and torturer of innocents. It actually makes me more resentful of her character, because something so relatively easy to do is what breaks her. The walk of shame is not suffering to a well balanced human being. Cersei suffers dramatically during the walk because she's that vain. Her looks and youth were the only thing about her of any worth, and that's pathetic. If anything, the walk was a good thing for Cersei. She's getting off very easy so far.

by your repeated comparison of this punishment to a drunken night out, is it safe for me to assume you are male? if that is a correct assumption, then you really aren't in a position to understand or judge how a woman will and does react to a situation like the WoS. it is not an easy thing for women to endure what cersei did. again, because you are male you've never witnessed girls forced to change for gym in a common room manage to remove their top and put on their gym shirt all without ever being completely exposed. the body, nudity and exposure are very, very different for men and women.

next, in a society where women are only allowed to be wives and mothers, their looks and youth are indeed all they have. even the QoT, arguably one of the smarter people in the entire series must navigate carefully and never seem to be overtly in control, but rather must "show" herself to be the ornery older matriarch rather than brains of the family. and brienne, who has dared to try something different, is constantly having her looks discussed, by herself as much as others. the medieval world had very defined roles for women and what their strengths were and, if i'm honest, the modern world isn't as far removed as it should be when it comes to a woman's youth or beauty.

[ChromeWeasel]

by your repeated comparison of this punishment to a drunken night out, is it safe for me to assume you are male? if that is a correct assumption, then you really aren't in a position to understand or judge how a woman will and does react to a situation like the WoS. it is not an easy thing for women to endure what cersei did. again, because you are male you've never witnessed girls forced to change for gym in a common room manage to remove their top and put on their gym shirt all without ever being completely exposed. the body, nudity and exposure are very, very different for men and women.

next, in a society where women are only allowed to be wives and mothers, their looks and youth are indeed all they have. even the QoT, arguably one of the smarter people in the entire series must navigate carefully and never seem to be overtly in control, but rather must "show" herself to be the ornery older matriarch rather than brains of the family. and brienne, who has dared to try something different, is constantly having her looks discussed, by herself as much as others. the medieval world had very defined roles for women and what their strengths were and, if i'm honest, the modern world isn't as far removed as it should be when it comes to a woman's youth or beauty.

There's a big difference between the shyness of an innocent, unworldly, 14 year old girl and a very sexually experienced 30+ year old woman. Do you really think that Cersei, who has used sex as a weapon and a tradeable commodity for most of her life, is comparable to a 14 year old virgin who has never seen another naked person before? I think that's a pretty terrible comparison. I'd use that comparison for Sansa Stark, not Cersei.

Cersei is more like Paris Hilton or Kim Kardasian than she is like an innocent 14 year old virgin. Cersei has been around the block many times. She's manipulated dozens of men, managed a significant spy network through guile, force, sexuality, and power. Hilton and Kardasian's exposure did them no harm at all. They rolled with the punches and actually exploited their 'shaming' to their own purposes.

The bottom line is that Cersei is about as far from innocent as a person can possibly be. To sympathize with her as if she's a 14 year old innocent high schooler has nothing to do with my own gender. I'm putting things far more into perspective, to be quite honest. You can assume that I'm a man, or you could assume I'm a girl that's simply been on spring break before, or you could stop worrying about my gender and simply deal with the realities of the character. You're talking about a very experienced woman who is anything but naive and innocent.

Also, I provided some real-world examples of actual torture. Some things which we should be very much aware that Cersei, through her agent Qwyburn, has actually inflicted on her own enemies. She has literally condemned innocents to be tortured to death, and Qwyburn has selectively sought out female victims at her hand. This is really the person you want to put in comparison of an innocent high school girl embarrassed at herself in a locker room?

I understand being embarrassed about your body when you are a stupid and innocent kid. I don't understand it when you're a full grown adult. I guess it's a credit to Martin that he's able to reach some of his readers with this chapter. But I don't see it as a good thing that people identify with Cersei here. Readers are putting on some major blinders to Cersei's character there.

[ChromeWeasel]

next, in a society where women are only allowed to be wives and mothers, their looks and youth are indeed all they have.

One more point on this: Looks are indeed, all that Cersei has. This is to her own discredit. She was born literally into one of the most privileged situations in all of Westeros. But over the course of her life there is very little worthwhile about Cersei other than her physical beauty. I realize that it's traumatic to her to have this fading and exposed. But that's only because she's never taken any time to develop anything deeper than a nice body, a pretty face, and a decent spy networks of criminals. I don't picture the walk of shame breaking Margaery, or the Queen of Thornes, or Dany, or much of any other adult woman in the story, because they all have something more to them than bitterness and jealousy wrapped in a pretty exterior. It's the fact that looks really are all Cersei has that makes her so reprehensible.

[Theda Baratheon]

The Walk of Shame is not a joke in terms of pnishment when it comes down to Cersei.

Think of her personality, she is vain, narcissistic, proud. This shatters ALL of those things. So I think trivialising this is a pretty dumb thing to do. You've read the books. You know how much this sort of punishment affects Cersei.

Also, as a woman, I would not EVER like to walk naked through a dangerous, murderous, dirty City whilst people shout obscenities at me and throw crap at me.

So, for a Queen like Cersei, this is unbearable.

[jons nissa]

I don't understand it when you're a full grown adult.

this is obvious so i will explain it to you. a woman being forced to walk naked and shaved throughout a city is traumatic, demeaning and humiliating. for some, it would be impossible to complete. their age, sexual experience or body awareness would not be factors for making such an act easier or harder. this is a mental punishment that is meant to affect a person's personality. for other women, this walk might be possible but still would be extremely difficult to undertake. i'm not sure why you think comparing modern celebrity women who have not been in this type of situation (sorry, but a sex tape is not comparable) but no woman would be able to complete this walk and then brush it off as if nothing had happened. that's where the gender question comes into play. no woman would ever describe the WoS to a "drunken bet." saying that is a clear indication that you don't understand sexual humiliation or psychological punishment. in any case, it had no affect on you and you believe cersei wasn't punished, that's fine. everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.

[zaphodbrx]

WoS was quite humiliating, but in comparison to others its not so bad. This is a world where you could get randomly flayed, burnt alive, crucified, , have your dick cut off and any number of nasty things.

[staffred]

Being a recovering alcoholic myself I can assure you that Lena does a fine job acting a person who has had, say, four glasses of whine.

And I think Cersei in the tv-series is better than Cersei in the books. She is brutal, but still human. I think Lena balances it perfectly.

[Spring Snow]

My heart broke a little bit at the tone of voice she used when she was pleading with Tywin. It's a vulnerability we haven't really seen from her yet on the show, and knowing how far she's going to fall yet makes it worse. Cersei is a terribly cruel, narcissistic person, but the walk of shame was absolutely, intentionally grueling, and I don't know what to say if it didn't effect you even a little bit.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Lena Headey play out Cersei's downward spiral, and her battle of wills with Margaery. She didn't impress me much during the first season, but from season 2 on she's jumped up to my list of personal favorites on the show.

[ChromeWeasel]

this is obvious so i will explain it to you. a woman being forced to walk naked and shaved throughout a city is traumatic, demeaning and humiliating. for some, it would be impossible to complete. their age, sexual experience or body awareness would not be factors for making such an act easier or harder. this is a mental punishment that is meant to affect a person's personality. for other women, this walk might be possible but still would be extremely difficult to undertake. i'm not sure why you think comparing modern celebrity women who have not been in this type of situation (sorry, but a sex tape is not comparable) but no woman would be able to complete this walk and then brush it off as if nothing had happened. that's where the gender question comes into play. no woman would ever describe the WoS to a "drunken bet." saying that is a clear indication that you don't understand sexual humiliation or psychological punishment. in any case, it had no affect on you and you believe cersei wasn't punished, that's fine. everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.

I made the modern comparison because you made the modern comparison. You asked me to put myself in the shoes of an imaginary young, innocent high school girl taking her clothes off in the gym, as if that's relevant to Cersei. As I noted, Cersei is much more like Paris Hilton. Again, I made the comparison strictly in response to yours. And mine was far more realistic in terms of character.

Now I do agree that anyone can have his own interpretation on things. But I ask you to put things into perspective. Cersei has personally committed many innocents to be tortured to death by Qwyburn. We know that he has a tradition of cutting into live victims to see what makes them tick. We are talking about vivisecting live, innocent people for fun and curiosity. Cersei knows this, and is happy to commit her victims to the most lethal, gruesome physical torture simply because she doesnt like them.

The lethal torture is right out there for the reader. It's not hidden and it's not open to many interpretations. We know that Cersei's agent is ripping the vital organs out of people while they are still alive to see how they work inside. Compared to this, how does anyone actually argue that a naked walk through the city, under the protection of the military, is any kind of significant punishment?

Now, I understand why Cersie thinks that it's a terrible punishment. She's deranged and narcissitic. But I would expect a well balanced person should see the whole picture here and note that what Cersei is going through is a joke. Jamie is crippled for life. Theon has endured pain and suffering so bad he can't eat. There are multiple characters with the sexual organs brutally ripped off. Tyrion lost his nose. Not to mention the innocents with their vital organs disemboweled by Qwyburn. And Cersei.... got shaved and took a walk.

I don't see how that comparison is subject to reasonable interpretation. I realize that there will always be someone with very, very skewed opinions on things. But I don't see anyone really preferring vivisection and mutilation to taking the walk of shame. People take that walk of shame every spring break. People don't intentionally get gutted alive by a madman.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think you have to be more empathetic. Yes, she has committed atrocities, yes she is an abhorrent person. I truly, truly agree with this.

This punishment to CERSEI is absolutely humiliating, she is made to hate her body, feel ashamed of it. This is a proud, lioness in her mind, and they have shaved off her locks and made her walk naked through the streets.

I also think you're trivializing it a lot, yes, technically the military are there to defend her, but there have been riots in the city recently, and it doesn't stop people shouting horrible, insulting words at her and throwing whatever.

Yes, I know to you this might seem like a ''joke'' because of all the evil she has done, so you might not be SYMPATHETIC, however, in understanding the character it might be better to be EMPATHETIC, because from Cersei's point of view, this is AWFUL.

They have seen her naked, they have seen she is just another aging woman, and we know how much Cersei hates women, this stark contrast of hating herself shatters through all the vain, narcissistic pride she has of herself.

This punishment really is a massive deal to Cersei. In some ways I think it has more of an affect on her than what possible other punishments would have. This psychological punishment, this shame, is awful to her.

You really have to be empathetic and understand exactly how Cersei feels about herself prior to this to truly understand the impact it can have.

YOU personally might not care about a punishment like this, you (are you male?) perhaps feel comfortable in your own body, but can you really say walking through a dirty, dangerous city with people shouting and throwing things at you would be EASY?

I have a low pain tolerance, but I would still prefer physical punishments to this. Baring myself to a whole city of people who hate me, making me ashamed, hating my body, feeling exposed, and terrified and ugly. This would really, really emotionally effect me for years. This would scar me. And I don't particularly have any pride in my body ANYWAY, so if Cersei, someone who has profound pride in being a lioness, a beautiful and strong and proud Queen, likening herself to common people, feeling exposed and ashamed is just harrowing.

[The Killer Snark]

I completely agree with ChromeWeasel. I felt sorry for Cersei for a while during the naked walk, though afterwards she never became better for it. She's still the same old Cersei. She still has to be punished, same as all the other characters who've done something really reprehensible. The walk was merely a symbolic lowering of her status as a prelude to a fall from power. Anyone would take this over getting mutilated, horribly killed or otherwise permanently maimed.

Theda - Without downplaying what Cersei goes through, would you prefer what Theon goes through or Viserys' crown of gold? No-one would. Anyway, I don't want to go off-subject so I'll say no more.

[Theda Baratheon]

Um, would I prefer being tortured over an extended period of time so that I am broken with missing limbs and possibly mutilated genitalia? No.

Would I like molten gold poured onto my face and head so that I die in absolute agony ? Um, no.

By physical punishments I mean being beaten, like Sansa was, rather than be psychologically scarred.

[StannisandDaeny]

I understand why it's horrible to Cersei, but I don't sympathize with her because she deserves far worse and has inflicted far, far worse things on countless others. Compared to the torture she let Qyburn put on others, the many mutilations committed at her command etc. etc. the walk was indeed a joke. That said, I would've preferred if they had just cut off her head and be done with it. The punishment was after all inflicted for the wrong reasons, and by the wrong person... Martin really has a way of not giving the reader what he wants (in my case, justice) because the walk was hardly anything to cheer about, at most, it was another reason on the list '1000 reasons King's Landing should be burned to the ground'. We may yet come to realize, that King Aerys was right...

If it drives Cersei to the point of madness she'll command UnGregor to gloriously rampage through King's Landing, killing Tyrells left and right, I will cheer about it, however.