(Book Spoilers) What do you make of the Shireen and Selyse?

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

Shireen is adorable :)

[greensleeves]

Felt like Selyses house of horrors was just pandering to the viewer, not really all that great, story-wise.

On further reflection, I like the fetus jars. Patchface, in my opinion, is a character straight out of the horror genre. Since we don't get Patchface, we get fetus jars (which in my mind are another clear connection to that genre). They put that little twist of horror-ific back in Stannis's home life.

[Pure Guava]

Ah. Was wondering where this topic was...thought for sure there would be one. Well, in a different thread I said this:

I, for one, am fine with this interpretation of Selyse and Shireen as I found them to be utter throw-aways in the book. This gives them at least a little bit of personality. A nice touch. That scene with Davos and Shireen was one of the few scenes in this series which I would call "precious".

And also...let me reiterate my relief that there is no Patchface. The most annoying character in ASoIaF. :thumbsdown:

[Daynestar]

Re: the stillborn kids, I made a thread about this but it doesn't seem to have been approved because [NO REASON PROVIDED].

I think they're going to be used instead of the leeches that Mel burns. There's three of them, plus King's Blood and all that. It's clear that Mel is going to bring back Gendry and Davos is going to talk Stan out of burning him. The fetuses will be his replacement.

Also she called one of them 'Edric'.

An interesting nod to book readers if they go that way.

[jons nissa]

i loved shireen but i wonder if non book readers know what's wrong with her face. has greyscale been discussed on the show? in any event, she is a lovely girl - one can only wonder how she could be so normal with such crazed and obsessed parents. but with no patchface, she leads a very lonely existence.

which brings me to patchface. he was prophetic even though no one noticed. does the fact that shireen was singing his song mean that she will be prophetic as well?

selyse was nicer than i imagined - better looking and kinder - until it came to her daughter. wtf? she doesn't seem very affection toward her child. any thoughts on that? i don't remember her being cold toward shireen in the books.

eta:

Also she called one of them 'Edric'. An interesting nod to book readers if they go that way.

especially if they do substitute the fetuses for the leeches thereby "sacrificing" edric for the cause. btw, i'm really squicked out by the idea of sacrificing fetuses.

[Pure Guava]

until it came to her daughter. wtf? she doesn't seem very affection toward her child. any thoughts on that? i don't remember her being cold toward shireen in the books.

I thought it was more contempt directed at Stannis for being a father in absentia...one who feels ashamed about his afflicted daughter. I didn't get that it was directed toward Shireen at all.

[juanml82]

Loved Shireen. A sweet child, and one capable of great loyalty and friendship in a series so filled with treason and backstabbing. Her scene with Davos was great.

Regarding how she got there, the guard was asleep. And she's the crown princess as far as anyone is concerned. She will do as she pleases in Dragonstone unless her parents forbid it.

[jons nissa]

I thought it was more contempt directed at Stannis for being a father in absentia...one who feels ashamed about his afflicted daughter. I didn't get that it was directed toward Shireen at all.

selyse says (paraphrasing) "you want to see her as well? you don't need distractions." that hardly sounds like contempt for stannis at being absent.

[Dethzilla]

I thought there were tunnels and such within the castles that she could travel through.

[episodenone]

No one gonna point out that one of the fetus's was named Edric? No value in that?

[jons nissa]

No one gonna point out that one of the fetus's was named Edric? No value in that?

actually a few people have:

Also she called one of them 'Edric'. An interesting nod to book readers if they go that way.

eta: especially if they do substitute the fetuses for the leeches thereby "sacrificing" edric for the cause. btw, i'm really squicked out by the idea of sacrificing fetuses.

[Pure Guava]

selyse says (paraphrasing) "you want to see her as well? you don't need distractions." that hardly sounds like contempt for stannis at being absent.

Ah, man. Must have missed that last bit. Well, damn. I suppose then it is contempt for her disfigured daughter (equal parts for being a daughter and disfigured)?

[BaseBornBastard]

Selyse was creepier than I imagined her in the books.

Shireen seems to have been cast very well....all sweet and innocent. I loved the Patchface song at the end credits. Charming yet haunting at the same time.

[Sir Mark of the East]

Shireen was so sweet it warmed my cold, cold heart. Seeing her run up to give her dad a hug was touching, almost as much as the Gendry and Arya scene.

Same here, when Shireen run up to Stannis and hugged him then she looked up at him, if my heart could melt at that point in time, it would. I like what they did with the Greyscale as well, I was expecting it to be more blackish but I think this is better.

What's up with the fetus?

[Sullen]

With the exceptions of the stillborns in jars, I thought they were marvelously portrayed.

The Dragonstone scenes were probably the some of the best scenes we've gotten this season so far.

[Sun]

Shireen is adorable but she is blond!! Which sort of puts the nail in Ned's whole "Baratheon: Black of hair" discovery in S1. The man died for being an idiot, according to the show. LOL

I like Selyse. The jar babies was a touch too much, this show can't resist an opportunity to shock, but her character was right on the money in its fanatical faith in both the Lord of Light and Stannis.

I'll have to wait and see how she interacts with other characters before I can render final judgement. I would hate for her to lose the insufferable arrogance we saw so clearly in the books.

[StarkBlack21]

I think they are going to expand Gendry's role. They might keep Gendry with Stannis and bring Gendry to the Wall. Gendry might link up with Jon and join the fight at the wall. that would be a great way to keep Gendry involved, since he's clearly a fan favorite.

Also remember we don't have the one-armed Smith at the Night's Watch, so Gendry could fill his role for the watch. Hopefully he won't get killed though, like the guy did.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

I, for one, am fine with this interpretation of Selyse and Shireen as I found them to be utter throw-aways in the book. This gives them at least a little bit of personality. A nice touch. That scene with Davos and Shireen was one of the few scenes in this series which I would call "precious".

And also...let me reiterate my relief that there is no Patchface. The most annoying character in ASoIaF. :thumbsdown:

Agreed. Both Selyse and Shireen are much more interesting characters in those scenes than what we're given in the books, where Selyse is essentially an overzealous, unattractive harpy and Shireen is a lonely, sad little girl with only a grotesque fool for company. In neither case would those have made for compelling TV characters, so the changes are fantastic and instantly make Dragonstone a more memorable setting.

Selyse being completely bonkers was a pleasant surprise for me. I didn't even mind the fetus jars because they provided that "what the ACTUAL fuck" crazy moment similar to Lysa breastfeeding 6-year old sweetrobin. It was over the top, but damned effective at displaying the depth of her madness.

Sweet little Shireen on the other hand ably filled several important roles - providing Stannis with a touch of humanity that we hadn't seen before, and giving us someone else besides just Davos to root for on Dragonstone. I also love the idea that she'll be the one to teach Davos to read. It's a vital part of the story for him (and for the Dragonstone plot as a whole) and it makes sense for his friend to teach him rather than some throwaway Maester character.

And while I understand that theories about Patchface and his "prophecies" can be fun to talk about, his presence on the show would've been distracting and a poor fit in context to the other characters.

i loved shireen but i wonder if non book readers know what's wrong with her face. has greyscale been discussed on the show?

It hasn't yet, but surely will be. This would fit the pattern the showrunners have had thus far of "show first, tell later."

selyse was nicer than i imagined - better looking and kinder - until it came to her daughter. wtf? she doesn't seem very affection toward her child. any thoughts on that? i don't remember her being cold toward shireen in the books.

A couple of things here. First, I think this change was made to plant a seed about greyscale and the stigma it carries. Second, since Selyse gets a lot of her opinions from Melisandre, I wonder if at least part of her attitude (the "distraction" bit) wasn't planted by Mel to help solidify her hold over Stannis. In other words, the less time Stannis spends thinking and caring about his daughter, the more likely he is to focus on Mel and what she wants out of him.

[Jojosh]

shireen is adorable for what its worth

Not sure what's up with selyse not nearly bad enough for me to like her portrayal but hey the jar scenes where good and I like the edric reference

[The Key Is Patchface]

And also...let me reiterate my relief that there is no Patchface. The most annoying character in ASoIaF. :thumbsdown:

Pardon me?? Patchface is the key...but in the show Shireen will be the key...updating my prediction...Shireen will sit the Iron Throne when all is done, final shot will be a slow pull back as she sings one of Patchface's prophecies...in the books it'll end with Patchface beside her dancing around doing the singing