[book spoilers] Nitpick without repurcussions

[Dove]

Same here, and some of the Unsullied of the TWoP consider him "the purest definition of 'good, strong and kind'."

Yikes. Did they really cut so much of his darker material? It's been ages since I've seen S2, I guess I should re-watch it soon because I don't remember his storyline much and I know book 2 Tyrion did some... interesting things.

[EnergeticCrab]

Selyse's baby thing is supposedly a substitution for the leeches that Mel burns to kill Joffery/Balon/Robb; king's blood and all.

[ckongo]

Ugh, the show is a lost cause. But here are some nitpicks.

WTF at the tank babies.Did Stannis go through a time machine before stepping into that room? Stannis is ruined anyway, but this is stupid.

All these added scenes at King's Landing are awful.

Thoros is the opposite of how he was in the books.He was one a drunkard, but that was before.

Sandor did not get set ablaze. I also did not like how he mocked Arya when he won. It makes him far less sympathetic, but show Sandor is completely different from book Sandor.

[Roboginger]

Tormund spends every scene glaring as hard as possible at Jon, whether he's talking to him or no. This episode he does the same thing, except he tells Jon that he "likes him". Its just plain boring by now.

And Tormund talking about his member isn't the only funny or entertaining thing about him, not even close. You sure sound a little uptight with that post.

I Agree, Tormund had a sense of humor and was laid back not some hard ass that just stares menacingly at people.

[ckongo]

I Agree, Tormund had a sense of humor and was laid back not some hard ass that just stares menacingly at people.

It's strange how much they are getting characters wrong. Renly was a similar case. He was much more laid back in the books yet was a hothead in season 2. Stannis, Shae, Thoros, Sandor, Cersei, Arya (a little), Jon, Selyse; all act different.

[ViennaGirl]

Tormund and Mance are both so humorless. Maybe they didn't make Tormund "fun" because they're making Thoros kind of fun, and they thought people would mix them up. I love book Tormund.

The cave scene - yikes. Too fast, too random, too close to everyone else! If there's a warm cave with a hot tub right next to their camp, wouldn't they all be camping out in there? And Jon, the virgin, diving right down there...oy. This means that this is their only sex scene, I bet. They won't have time for any more - their plot is moving too fast.

For marying Talisa, Robb deserves what's coming.

Love the Hound. Hate zombies. Glad Beric isn't a really icky zombie - he's more of a presentable one. Fingers crossed for UnCat.

[Batman]

I believe it's supposed to be a running gag and will be referenced in every episode from now on.

Next time in Essos, we will overhear two random whores discussing the extraordinary abilities of a certain squire from Westeros. It will be hilarious.

I will take your word for it. They seem to have replaced Tormunds member jokes with Podricks members jokes.

[1234567]

Sandor did not get set ablaze. I also did not like how he mocked Arya when he won. It makes him far less sympathetic, but show Sandor is completely different from book Sandor.

They seem like they are going to be trying to make up for the two seasons of hardly any character exposition by turning him into the character he was at the beginning, at a point in the story, where he has already fundamentally changed.

[Mulled Wino]

That's funny, because that's what I thought the producers were doing. :lol:

What a setup!!! Home run Rapsie.

[Mulled Wino]

Yet all quotes and "funny jokes" about him on this forum have "Tormund's member" in them. WAY funny.

Well, when you read the books, he doesnt only have personality when talking about his member.

He's a colorful guy, just cuz forum folks talk about his member a lot, doesnt mean thats all there is to his character.

[protar]

Selyse's baby thing is supposedly a substitution for the leeches that Mel burns to kill Joffery/Balon/Robb; king's blood and all.

I really hope not. Not just because it's an unnecessary addition but because I can't imagine that flowing smoothly as a scene. Quickly dropping the leeches in the fire would be far more dramatic. Those giant jars, they're too clumsy for a scene like that imo.

['96Buck]

Tyrion's angst over marrying Sansa pissed me off. Such concern he displayed for her was not in the books. Thanks for whitewashing him again creators! :bang:

He liked the idea of a token pretty wife, all that land he would own, and just assumed some kind words would erase all that his family had done to her- I want to see that Tyrion on the show, dammit!

The "we've been hosing her all this time, and now you want to make her marry ME?!?! She hates me!" speech is almost spot-on from the book, as I recall.

[Birdsong65]

The "we've been hosing her all this time, and now you want to make her marry ME?!?! She hates me!" speech is almost spot-on from the book, as I recall.

I think the point being made here is that while you are correct, he did conclude that she hated everyone with the name Lannister, with very good reason, Tyrion, despite this, did reflect on the fact that he wanted her regardless, her youth, her beauty, her lands, her entitlements, etc., which, to this point has not been presented equally. However, there is still time for this, though I believe D&D will delve further into Shae's reaction, than Tyrion's self revelation that he happens to lust for Sansa, as well.

Also, IIRC, the "hate" was more objective, more directed to specific Lannister's (Cerci/Joffrey), while the "hate" reserved for Tyrion was more along the lines of "everyone hates an imp" of any surname, rather similar to the "hate" reserved for bastards. It's the idea of imps and bastards, the myths associated in Westerosi society. I can't remember of any specific incident between Tyrion & Sansa that would suggest anything else. Anyone?

[teemo]

My issue with Jon Snow is that he is SO introverted...I knew it was going to be an almost impossible task to give him a good adaptation, because more than any other character, especially at this point in the series, everything important is in Jon's head. And he has no one to talk. A common theme of all shows is that there is someone major characters can confide in - whether it's a best friend, family, themselves, a psychiatrist, a ghost, whatever, there's someone. Jon Snow has no one. He can't even tell Ygritte what's really going on. I know so many people who absolutely could not stand Jon Snow until they read the books.

They really fucked up Jon last year with the idiotic and unmemorable TV!Halfhand who didn't even make it clear enough that jon was on a mission to spy on the wildlings. In the premiere my boyfriend said, "Wow, I'm surprised Jon is really turning on the NW." Jon having no way to speak to anyone about his feelings is an issue, but not one they can really address because who could he talk to? If you read the books, you know that Jon is worried 24/7 about being an oathbreaker and that sleeping with Ygritte was a serious moral dilemma for him. In the show, it didn't really come across like that at all. The storyline with Ygritte is rushed as hell, but.....some of their past choices with Jon have put him in a miserable spot and I'm not sure how they can get him out of it right away.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

A big part of the reason the Jon/Ygritte thing has fallen flat is because they just haven't fleshed out the Wildlings enough as a people. The humour in them, and especially Mance and Tormund is supposed to be enticing to Jon. And the episode when Orell is introduced all Ygritte says is "You've never seen a warg?" with an 'OMG you are so dumb' expression - hardly a justification for undying love, or for betrayal of his oaths.

[Joyful Union]

My issue with Jon Snow is that he is SO introverted...I knew it was going to be an almost impossible task to give him a good adaptation, because more than any other character, especially at this point in the series, everything important is in Jon's head. And he has no one to talk. A common theme of all shows is that there is someone major characters can confide in - whether it's a best friend, family, themselves, a psychiatrist, a ghost, whatever, there's someone. Jon Snow has no one. He can't even tell Ygritte what's really going on. I know so many people who absolutely could not stand Jon Snow until they read the books.

This is a very good point. One of the few cases where the show could really do with a thought bubble, or a voice-over to show inner thoughts (even if it would be very cheesy). In the book, we had whole chapters full of his conflicting thoughts and doubts, how on earth can you translate that to screen. I have a feeling that the show will do much more with him once he's Lord Commander, because he has people to express his doubts and fears to. Hopefully he will be confident and capable enough during the Battle for the Wall that his LC appointment is justified.

[Sword of Funny]

A common theme of all shows is that there is someone major characters can confide in - whether it's a best friend, family, themselves, a psychiatrist, a ghost, whatever, there's someone. Jon Snow has no one.

Jon does have a Ghost. A missed opportunity for monologues.

[PatrickStormborn]

Jon's story has been handled really badly so far. The writing has been okay, so I guess it's a combination of Kit's terrible acting and not allocating the story enough screentime.

[Mammothsbane]

I agree with the above. Jon and the WIldlings as a whole have been very badly rushed.. it makes me wonder because really they could have had Jons arc expand two seasons and dedicate more time to it slowly but surely. They missed an easy vehicle for Jon to confide in (Ghost, when everyone is sleeping he could talk to him) and the characterization of the Wildlings has been awful. They are supposed to be fun (er) than the South, even though they are dealing with all these problems.

Tormund has been the worst, especially since they seem to have blended his character with Styr. Ummmm could you have picked two bigger opposites to blend into one character? Styr is a complete hard ass while Tormund is more colorful. Mance has suffered as well, with no wife/child and no musical talent from what we've seen.

And the cave scene was too much sex, not enough exposition. The "let's stay in the cave" moment felt rushed and didn't convey the thought that she was serious. It was more playful than willful.

[protar]

One thing that baffles me this season with Jon is the incredibly small amount of screen time Ygritte has gotten until this episode. Back in season 2 when they destroyed Qhorin to give Ygritte screen time, the main defence was that it was to increase her development time to build up her romance with Jon. But then for the first half of this season she has like 5 lines. They would have gotten the same amount of development had they followed the books and then just had a couple of ygritte scenes instead of prostitutes. As it was their sex scene just came out of nowhere.

Jon's introversion is a big problem. He could have at least talked to Ghost a couple of times if they'd kept him around.