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(BOOK SPOILERS) Nonsense


Mr. Bolton

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I am very disappointed with this episode. It is said, that Karstark forces are almost half of the army. I don't think Karstarks have around 9000 men. Another nonsense is, when Robb decides that he will take Casterly Rock. In this how, he just keep wandering from here to there.

After he crossed the Twins ( with Frey forces, save for four hundred garrison) and defeated Jaime ( and unlogically avoided Riverrun), he went to plunder the Westerlands. It is said that he conquered the Crag (which is very close to Casterly Rock) and can't attack on Casterly Rock, because he's short of troops. Then he goes back to Harrenhal (where he must garrison some troops), then during march to the Riverrun he said that he will join Riverrun garrison to his forces. It does not make sense, to attack Casterly Rock. He has same (even if Frey possible left him after marriage with Talisa) number of troops, maybe even fewer, as he had on Season 2.

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It's a TV show. It's not supposed to make logical sense. Plus, it is set in an alternate universe than the books. Some things are the same, but they're separate entities. On the TV show, the Karstarks have 9000 men.

Personally, I wish they would spend less time with Robb's story arc as a whole. He is boring as hell and the love story has been awful. Never thought I'd doze off during an execution. I'm starting to look forward to the Red Wedding.

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It's interesting that his motivation to get the Frey's on his side is to attack Casterly Rock, rather than retake Moat Cailin, which as of this point in the show has never been taken by the Ironborn. Also that he has zero motivation to go home and reclaim the north. I agree that being at the Crag with the Freys AND Karstarks on his side still and not attacking Casterly Rock and now thinking that is a good idea with no Karstarks is sloppy writing.

A good episode over all though, and I have kind of given up on TV Robb since season 2, and agree that at this point I am more of a Frey sympathizer. Certainly book Robb also betrayed his oath, but at least he recognized he made a mistake, something TV Robb still hasn't acknowledged, and he thought he was doing the "right thing" protecting Jeyne's honor, where Talisa never even mentioned wanting to get married or either one of them caring about her honor.

Book Robb was several years younger, making a mistake in the aftermath of hearing of his brothers deaths, and didn't make the mistake against the council of his mother and bannermen beforehand. Anyway, at least this is the last season we will have to deal with him.

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So are they choosing to make Robb want to take Casterly Rock rather than hatch the 3-pronged plan to take the North?

IMHO, the TV show is exposing the flimsiness of the book marriage and it has been suffering from trying to connect everything. At this point, I'm just waiting for the RW and be done with it.

Yes in the books he is angry and frustrated, but can still maintain a level head. In the TV show he is sort of turning into a degenerate gambler, putting everything on crimson and gold

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Speaking of troop numbers, didn't the Tyrells have way bigger army in the previous season? Now it's supposed to be only about 16,000.

You referring to Queen of Thorns conversation to Tyrion? I was thinking that number was just what they are sort of putting on retainer for the crown. The much higher number was full mobilization. My impression anyway
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Robb did?

Looking at the big picture, yes he did: Stannis was defeated, the Iron Throne hasn't turned against the Ironborn, leaving him as the only opponent of the combined might of the Ironborn and, more important, Houses Tyrell and Lannister. He's vastly outnumbered, has no allies and his home was taken. In the meantime the Tyrell-Lannister alliance can bid their time, but they will eventually win, if anything, because of superior numbers.
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It's a TV show. It's not supposed to make logical sense. Plus, it is set in an alternate universe than the books. Some things are the same, but they're separate entities. On the TV show, the Karstarks have 9000 men.

I can live with many unlogicals in the show, but Karstark having half of the northern forces is stupid as hell and was unnessecary to mention, the other lords (Mormont, Glover, Umber) get even introduced in Season 1.

In the series it's like Winterfell a thousand men (at the start), Manderlys, Mormonts, Umbers and Glovers, too, but the mighty Karhold holds 9000 men...lol...

Karstark is the mightiest lord of the entire realm! Just the 7 big lords, when they call their hole region can match the mighty Karstark!

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Well it could be half the men that Robb has with him. His men are separated as Roose always had most of his foot.

They did change this from the show though. Littlefinger tells Tywin in Season 2 that after the Starks and Lannisters the Tyrells have the most forces. Anyone who reads the books knows this is way off.

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I understand why they went with 'half the army', because they had to show the direness of the situation. If only they'd said 'half of his northern forces', if only. 'Cos Karstark having a quarter of the Northern forces (assuming Robb's and Roose's hosts are equally big) could make sense from a show-perspective, him somehow having as much men as all of the North and the Riverlands combined, not so much. If he had had that many men, I don't think that execution would've worked out so well, lol.

The Karstarks have marched home. The Young Wolf has lost half his army*, his days are numbered.

*= since the war starts.

I suppose that's a good way to look at it, but I don't think a lot of people will perceive it that way. I don't recall a mention of the Freys pulling out of the Northern army ever happening.

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I understand why they went with 'half the army', because they had to show the direness of the situation. If only they'd said 'half of his northern forces', if only. 'Cos Karstark having a quarter of the Northern forces (assuming Robb's and Roose's hosts are equally big) could make sense from a show-perspective, him somehow having as much men as all of the North and the Riverlands combined, not so much. If he had had that many men, I don't think that execution would've worked out so well, lol.

But they also already introduced other nothern lords in Season 1, also a Manderly will also appear + the hole Revenge of the North thing from book 5 wouldn't work with the Karstark and Boltons making up such an immense Number.

They simple had to shown Freys leaving + Karstarks man and something said, like the Freys took their 4 thousand footmen, with the Karstark gone we lost nearly half of our Heavy cavalery.. that would have nearly the same impact for the show viewer, but this Karstark is the half north makes simply not any sense, even if you view it only at the TV show point of view.

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I can live with everything so far mentioned in this thread. TV show adaption of books and all, I can get my head wrapped around why they did this or that.

However, never and I mean NEVER would Stannis allow his wife to keep miscarriaged and unborn babies in GLASS JARS on Dragonstone. Stannis is a NO NONSENSE ruler, and would NEVER ALLOW that. Why even add something like this in? It adds nothing to the show. Sure, Stannis is a ways out there with the Red God stuff but he never follows it whole heartedly.They are turning TV Stannis into a wimp when in reality he is supposed to be one of the biggest badasses.

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I can live with everything so far mentioned in this thread. TV show adaption of books and all, I can get my head wrapped around why they did this or that.

However, never and I mean NEVER would Stannis allow his wife to keep miscarriaged and unborn babies in GLASS JARS on Dragonstone. Stannis is a NO NONSENSE ruler, and would NEVER ALLOW that. Why even add something like this in? It adds nothing to the show. Sure, Stannis is a ways out there with the Red God stuff but he never follows it whole heartedly.They are turning TV Stannis into a wimp when in reality he is supposed to be one of the biggest badasses.

Book Stannis surely doesn't care what his wife does, he really just avoids her the whole time right? I found it believable, he's a badass but ultimately he doesn't really like being around women, it's a deep character flaw, he just doesn't relate, least of all to his wife, he has no way to reason with her or understand her and if anything he probably drove her to her insanity. Also did you notice one of their names was edric? Will they talk about burning the foetus to bring forth a dragon since we have no Edric Storm to play this role yet?

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i hate what they did to robb, i loved him in the books but this is outrage, also i love tactical aspects of the books and for directors making this mush mess of it is just unacceptable

kill the poor guy and be done with it

great episode othervise

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