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(Book/Show Spoilers) Sansa and Margaery


sansatyrell

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I just needed a place to talk about these two! I loved their relationship in the books, as sparse as it was, and I love love love that it's getting a little more fleshed out in the tv series.

Out of all the people playing/using Sansa, I think Margaery is the one who actually cares about her (or cares the most about her). I'd love to discuss and hear other peoples thoughts on the two of them.

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The feeling I got from Margaery is that she cares as much about Sansa as she does with Joffrey. She is nice, cheery and changes depending on her company.

In the books she was just portrayed as young girl who is very nice friendly and such and Cersei as big meanie who is out to get her, and it takes careful reading to understand that she really is a manipulative mini Queen of Thorns

In the show its very obvious (to viewers) and I really like it.

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I think Margaery is using and playing Sansa every bit as much as she is Joffrey - but I think she likes Sansa a great deal more. I do believe that Margaery would like Sansa to be happy, she's just not willing to sacrifice any advantage to herself and her family over it. She probably feels she's doing Sansa a favor, anyway, so what's the harm? She strikes me as the kind of person who's very good at justifying things to herself.

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Yeah I agree with everything that's been said. It's clear she actually cares about Sansa (the actresses who play them have said that Margaery and Sansa would be truly close friends if they'd met under different circumstances).

I really love Margaery's involvement so far, and I'm interested to see if she plays any role in the upcoming Sansa/Tyrion events.

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Well, remember what happened in the books: once Sansa was married to Tyrion, Margaery gave her the immediate cold shoulder.

In the tv series, to see Sansa almost start to cry when Margaery told her about being engaged to Loras, and that they'd be "sisters" then, really almost made me cry.

When Margaery brushes off Sansa, I think I'll really cry.

Margaery strikes me as a spoiled sorority girl- just a user.

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The feeling I got from Margaery is that she cares as much about Sansa as she does with Joffrey. She is nice, cheery and changes depending on her company.

In the books she was just portrayed as young girl who is very nice friendly and such and Cersei as big meanie who is out to get her, and it takes careful reading to understand that she really is a manipulative mini Queen of Thorns

In the show its very obvious (to viewers) and I really like it.

:agree: however i think she's not doing it to be cruel but as someone who sees an opportunity and will be as manipulative as possible because it's sansa you know

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Am I not remembering from the book correctly or isn't Olenna the one to break it to Sansa they never meant for her to marry Loras (called Sansa a fool for that if I remember) and that she'd be lucky if it were Garland or whoever they intended.

Of course, they've left the other Tyrell men out of the story completely in the show, so I'm guessing that particular jab isn't even going to play into the plot. I think they're making Margaery "Like" Sansa a lot more than was shown from the book. In the book it was fairly obvious Margaery and her Grandmother were using Sansa for information as well as a pawn in the marriage plots. It's not as obvious in the show ... well at least the parts about marrying Loras aren't as obvious in the deception.

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If Marg really cared about Sansa, she wouldn't be trying to marry her to Loras. It's political necessity and scheming, nothing more.

Of course it's political necessity, but I honestly think Margaery genuinely cares about Sansa and wants her to be, as she said, her sister.

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Margery is giving Sansa the education that Cat and Ned failed to give her. Sansa should have been trained in politics not ballads bc she was always going to make a southern marriage. The fact that EVERYONE except Sansa realizes that she is the key to the north makes Sansa look like a little fool. Which at the point in the story she still is...

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If Marg really cared about Sansa, she wouldn't be trying to marry her to Loras. It's political necessity and scheming, nothing more.

From Margaery's perspective, a marriage to Loras will get Sansa out of KL and away from Monster Joffrey, it will make her future lady of Highgarden, and it will give her a husband who won't abuse her. Not a bad deal, given the situation. This is Margaery we're talking about: she loves Loras, so she'll think he's a good catch, and who cares if your husband is gay as long as his position gives you power and he manages to produce an heir or two? Margaery would take that deal in a heartbeat. (Hi, Renly!)

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I think Margaery does not really care about Sansa all that much. Maybe she likes her enough, but she would not go out of her way to help her with anything if it did not suit her own political purposes. Margaery is just a very very good player.

She strikes me as the kind of person who's very good at justifying things to herself.

That is an excellent observation.

Am I not remembering from the book correctly or isn't Olenna the one to break it to Sansa they never meant for her to marry Loras (called Sansa a fool for that if I remember) and that she'd be lucky if it were Garland or whoever they intended.

They wanted her to marry Willas all along, nobody even mentioned Loras (that was just Sansa's wishful thinking), and Garlan was happily married already.

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Marg doesn't care about Sansa! Marg is playing the game. She might be the best player in the game. Joff is seduced, Sansa is too, in a different way.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Margy has an image to maintain, but a certain goal to achieve as well. An image is the one of a 'nice' girl, generous and pure in her intentions, since her pretty face is meant to make other characters underestimate her. The goal is power for house Tyrell.

Margery's influence depends on people assuming her to have good intentions or be supportive of others desires (Joff) Otherwise herself would have no real influence bar what is offered by her house name. This is the difference between herself and QoT versus Mace or later Kevan.

This will materialize duly after the PW, when the Tyrells frame Tyrion and Sansa. No remorse, just calculative gain, if Sansa is not to be used to gain rights over the North she has little further value and could be sacrificed easily.

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Am I not remembering from the book correctly or isn't Olenna the one to break it to Sansa they never meant for her to marry Loras (called Sansa a fool for that if I remember) and that she'd be lucky if it were Garland or whoever they intended.

Well, Sansa is a fool to think "my brother" referred to Loras as a groom since Loras was already a Kingsguard in the book at that time. Willias was the only available brother. And as heir, is a more desirable match unless your head is filled with ballads, so there is no sense that Sansa is "not worthy" to marry Loras. Indeed, were Loras not already a kingsguard, Sansa-Loras is in many ways BETTER for the Tyrells...Willias is still heir of Highgarden AND it puts Tyrell power in the North.

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Well, Sansa is a fool to think "my brother" referred to Loras as a groom since Loras was already a Kingsguard in the book at that time. Willias was the only available brother. And as heir, is a more desirable match unless your head is filled with ballads, so there is no sense that Sansa is "not worthy" to marry Loras. Indeed, were Loras not already a kingsguard, Sansa-Loras is in many ways BETTER for the Tyrells...Willias is still heir of Highgarden AND it puts Tyrell power in the North.

for the record, it bothers me so much when people call Sansa a fool or stupid. You have to remember how young she is and how she was raised (i.e. the naive, sheltered daughter of Ned Stark who ((for all of her life until recently)) never had any reason to worry). She starts picking up how to play the game slowly as it goes on, but I think people are often too harsh on her.

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I don't think Margaery cares for Sansa at all. No one in Kings Landing cares about her one little bit, which is what makes her situation so sad and so isolating. They are playing Tyrion as caring a bit, but we know some of that is different from the books.

I think once Sansa marries Tyrion, Sansa will get that cold shoulder from Margaery and be even more isolated than she already has been.

Lord of the Tides is spot on in describing Margaery. She is fun to watch on screen.

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