Jon Snow and ''Waking the Dragon'' ''Dragon's Temper''

[TMAG887]

Im sure this has been brought up before in the R+L=J thread but i cant find it. New to the forum so forgive me.

Im pretty much sold on Jon being a Targ for a number of reasons most of which ive read on this site. One of the things I havent seen talked about is Jon's temper. I became a fan of the series through watching the show and started reading the books and a few things in Jons chapters jumped out at me, and reminded me of Viserys making empty threats about "waking the dragon" and Dany's comments about having a dragon's temper.

1. Jon, recovering from the arrow in his leg, and exhausted, mananges to pick up Ser Alliser Trone by the throat and lift him off the floor and it takes more than one of the sworn brothers hold Jon back. Im not exactly sure how old Jon is at this time but it seems a bit weird to me he was able to lift a grown man off the ground by the neck pretty much on one leg.

Ser Alliser seized Jon by the arm. Jon yanked away and grabbed the knight by the throat with such ferocity that he lifted him off the floor. He would have trottled him if the Eastwach men had not pulled him off.Thorne staggered back, rubbing the marks Jon's fingers had left on his neck.

2. Later in a Storm of Swords. Jon is practicing with Iron Emmett, hes pretty much gettin his ass kicked and takes a blow to the temple. He then remembers playing with Robb as children in Winterfell.

That morning he called it first. ''I'm Lord of Winterfell!'' he cried as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, ''You cant be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell.' I thought I had forgetten that. Jon could taste the blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken. In the end Halder and Horse had to pull him away from Iron Emmett, One man on either arm. The ranger sat on the ground dazed his shield half in splinters, the visor of his helm knocked askew, and his sword six yards away. ''Jon enough,'' Halder was shouting, ''he's down, you disarmed him. Enough!'' No. Not enough. Never enough. Jon let his sword drop. ''I'm sorry'' he muttered.

I dont have ADWD with me, but in Mel's chapter when they find the heads of the men Jon had sent out on spears, Jon is able to rip the spear from the ground, I believe the word Mel used to describe it was ''violently''. she then comments on the other men struggling to get the spears out of the ground.

[intheswamp]

Jon's super strength is made stranger, because he isn't described as a large individual, but sinewy and quick. I call it bastard rage.

He likely has Stark and Targ blood, two special and magical houses, which could explain why there is a certain power about him. Jon is also very religious, so maybe he has some Old Gods magic giving him strength. His superman powers explain why Mel wants to make shadow babies with him, now that Stannis is too weak.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yes, Jon is Superman. It is known.

[Kasrith]

I didn't even remember any of this, interesting even if it's not examined in the Targ light

[Northern Nomad]

I just thought that those instances were a mix of rage and adrenaline.

[Winterfellian]

First of all welcome!

My guess is that the examples you quoted doesn't have to with waking the dragon as much as a Jon being incredibly mad and/or pump with adrenaline. If I were to pick a more "magical" explanation I'd go with Jon's warging abilities as the root of it. After all, Varamyr mentions that a warg bond with a wolf is like a marriage. It changes both, the person and the wolf.

"Waking the dragon" is just an expression Viserys and later Daenerys used to let others know about their anger. Viserys' waking the dragon moments usually involved physically abusing his younger sister (not exactly something you need super strength to do). Dany also, doesn't acquire extra strength when her dragon is woken. They just get particularly vicious in their anger.

[Lord Martin]

In Norse mythology there was a type of warrior with immense strength known as berserkers. Our word berserk comes from it. They wore wolf pelts or bear skins into battle. Berserker approximates to bear shirt in old Norse. I wonder if Jon is a sort of berserker. It's a good Wikipedia read.

[lady m]

Welcome!

I tend to think Jon inherited Lyanna's looks and Rhaegar's personality, with a healthy addition of Ned. He's melancholy and a bit dour, which is similar to how Rhaegar is described. Waking the dragon really is about flashes of temper, which of course, Jon displays.

[The Night's Prince]

This hasn't been brought up as far as I know. That's pretty interesting. Considering how many instances it occurs. You should explore this further TMAG and make a thread with more analysis on what it might be. Great thread. :cheers:

[BondJamesBond]

I agree with those who have stated some skepticism. I think most characters have been angry at some point. It doesn't make them all targaryens.

As mentioned, Dany and Viserys don't display super strength when angry.

If anything, Jon is like Robb in that he gets physical with those he is angry with (intimidating Jamie with his wolf, executing karstark). Obviously, Robb doesn't go overboard most of the time, but he isn't a guy to trifle with.

[King Aerys the Just]

In Norse mythology there was a type of warrior with immense strength known as berserkers. Our word berserk comes from it. They wore wolf pelts or bear skins into battle. Berserker approximates to bear shirt in old Norse. I wonder if Jon is a sort of berserker. It's a good Wikipedia read.

It is. Jon is a bit bland as a character, so I'm all for him getting into blind killing rages so furious that he starts chewing on the edges of his shield and strikes down friends as well as foes if they stray too close. It could be cool.

[Night's Ranger]

Dany has dragons,Tyrion brain,Jon direwolf and superstrength?

[eggs]

I just thought that those instances were a mix of rage and adrenaline.

this. It is amusing seeing it all laid out though.

[Isildur's Mane]

I think, if it has to do with anything, it would be because he is a warg. Like others have said ^ Viserys and Dany don't have superhuman strength.

But it is just as likely that he gets a bit physical when he is angry and adrenaline related... who knows?

[Fire Eater]

Jon grasped the spear that bore Garth Greyfeather's head and wrenched it violently from the ground. "Pull down the the other two," he commanded, and four of the crows hurried to obey . . . To the men struggling with the spears

Jon managed to wrench one spear from the ground while the other crows even at two men to a spear have trouble pulling them out.

When Jon managed to escape from the wildling party, and he vaulted onto the mare's bare back with a sword in hand, and later thinks How did I ever mount her before, without saddle or stirrups, and a sword in one hand?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

In Norse mythology there was a type of warrior with immense strength known as berserkers. Our word berserk comes from it. They wore wolf pelts or bear skins into battle. Berserker approximates to bear shirt in old Norse. I wonder if Jon is a sort of berserker. It's a good Wikipedia read.

^ Just what I was going to say. I had a thread on here eons ago about Jon's parallels to Norse, Greek, Celtic, etc. mythology and I brought up the berserker parallel.

I agree that some of it is at least down to adrenaline, but the moments also come when he's emotionally volatile or distressed or enraged, which is another hint at a berserker parallel. If lifting a guy by the throat one-handed isn't "waking the dragon," in the sense that Viserys obviously meant it, I don't know what is.

[The Knight of Grey Garden]

Well you could also said that he was "wolf-blooded" that was described for some Stark like Brandon and Lyanna.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

The madder Jon gets...the stronger Jon gets! "ARRGH! SNOW SMASH!!!!" (He was exposed to gamma rays! It is known!)

[The Sleeper]

I think it is safe to say that GRRM is pushing it deliberately when it comes to some of Jon's physical feats when under duress, though he is writing for the ambiguity, staying within the limit. If would attribute it to something it would be to skinchanging. Maybe it works both ways.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

How strong are Direwolves in comparison to other animals in Westeros? Perhaps all of Ned Stark's children (and nephew) are able to access unusual reserves of strength when angry because of the "gift" of the Direwolves and latent warging abilities?