Jon and Ygritte in Hindsight

[Mikkel]

Why would he have been miserable? I don't buy it. He might have actually been much happier without having to take any shit from anybody and without artificial constraints on his life. Besides, once the Night's Watch had been disbanded after the wildling victory, he would no longer even be a deserter: There wouldn't be a Watch to be a deserter from. :P

Because abandoning the Night's Watch - destroyed or otherwise - would haunt him. It would be dishonorable (Jon would certainly think so), and given the amount of agonizing he does over breaking the (absurd) celibacy vow, I can't even begin to imagine what playing an active role in murdering his erstwhile brothers and destroying an institution that's protected the entire continent for millennia would do to him.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

I don't think he loved her. I don't think she loved him. To both of them it was like Jon went to Europe and got together with some foreign chick and they had a summer to remember and then he went back home where he belonged. It was a fling and only that. They were exotic to each other and wanted to experience what it felt like.

Seconded. I don't think Jon was in love with her at all. I'm undecided as to whether she was in love with him, especially judging by her actions in following Jon to Castle Black, as I deduce that it was either to kill him or to persuade him to go back, or a mixture of both when she finally realised he had betrayed her.

I think Quorin Halfhand's words "do what is required of you", are very poignant, for if Jon did not balk at killing Halfhand to "do what was required" of him, why would he balk at sleeping with Ygritte?

I don't think it was some elaborate seduction, he knew that she expected him to sleep with her if he was to prove to her that he had abandoned his vows.

He wasn't there to play happy families - he was there to infiltrate and to learn secrets in order to help the NW, hence in Halfhand's words, he was simply doing what was required, and I imagine this was probably justifiable to him as being in the interest of the greater good at that point in time at least - even if he probably felt terribly guilty for allowing Ygritte to believe that they had a future together.

There is no doubt that he feels unconscionable about her death and I suspect he probably felt guilty for betraying her trust and breaking his vows to the NW. Certainly, the circumstances of her death and the abandonment of his celibacy vows continue to haunt him up until his own albeit speculative demise at the end of ADwD, but this would not be surprising for a man who grew up under the guidance of the honorable Ned Stark, because he knows that his involvement in her life contributed a great deal to her death.

[Harlaw's Book]

I think they were in love. I think the characters think they were in love. And I agree with those who said that if Ygritte had lived, it wasn't going to work out. IMHO, Jon and Ygritte's relationship is the one that mirrors Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship the most.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Being with a wildling undercover versus true love? Really?

[giant snake]

He was young and it was pretty obvious that he was in love, even if it was short lived and doomed to failure. But they were in kind of a doomed atmosphere anyway, like they would die the next day, so why be overly concerned with the future?

Now Sam and Gilly...I just hope they spare us fat naked Sam in the show when it gets to it.

[Words of Winter]

My take is that this was like "high school" love where you think you are in love, but it is really just crushing big time on the other person and when you look back you :bang:

[Hana Oklapi Salihagic]

It was love both ways. AT Jon s POV we read how he would love to show her Winterwell, show her stone kings, love her inside warm lakes... And that death scene for me is showing of love for both of them. And that thing when Jon think about Stanis s offer, he said that choice would be much easier if Ygritte was instead of Val.

[thecryptile]

I believe it was love, for both of them, but I don't see how it could have worked in the long term. Jon has his duty to the Nights Watch, and the realm. Ygritte had her commitments to her own people. It was doomed to end in tragedy. If Jon had betrayed his brothers in the Watch, he would never have been able to forgive himself, just as he isn't able to forgive himself for Ygritte's death. Poor Jon.

[mrunderhill]

Any chance of love between them died the moment Ygritte killed the old man. It was at that moment Jon realised they could never be together in the real world. They were too different.

[Thendel]

I believe it was love, for both of them, but I don't see how it could have worked in the long term. Jon has his duty to the Nights Watch, and the realm. Ygritte had her commitments to her own people. It was doomed to end in tragedy. If Jon had betrayed his brothers in the Watch, he would never have been able to forgive himself, just as he isn't able to forgive himself for Ygritte's death. Poor Jon.

While he definitely mourns her, I don't think he seems to regret his choice at all. Sure, he felt a little miserable when he escaped Styr's team, but he seems to believe it was the right thing to do.

[thecryptile]

Jon did the right thing, but he still blames himself for Ygrittes death. In his dreams, he kills her- even though in real life someone else shot her. I'm not saying he would do it differently if he had to do it agian, I'm saying he will always be haunted by her death and feel responsible for it.

[Lord Commander Tollett]

Jon did the right thing, but he still blames himself for Ygrittes death. In his dreams, he kills her- even though in real life someone else shot her. I'm not saying he would do it differently if he had to do it agian, I'm saying he will always be haunted by her death and feel responsible for it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Morienthar]

We know Jon cared very deeply for Ygritte, but do you think Jon was truly in love with the wildling girl?

Do you think Ygritte was in love with Jon?

Do you think it was right for Jon to leave in the manner he did?

Should Jon have tried to save Ygritte during the battle?

Do you think Ygritte was aiming to kill Jon with that arrow or had she meant to simply stop him, knowing that he'd be killed for running?

In hindsight, how could Jon have handled the Ygritte situation better? Or do you think he had no choices and did the best he could in a difficult situation?

1 and 2 It was more of an infatuation

3 Yes,His oaths are above everything at this point in time.

4 No she would have killed him.

5 Only Ygritte knows that but I think she was a good enough shot to know how to target body parts.

6.1 Yes.

6.2 Though he did the best he could do that that point,he could have stopped and thoguht about it before running off or even before all the sex.

[Thendel]

6.2 Though he did the best he could do that that point,he could have stopped and thoguht about it before running off or even before all the sex.

Saying that he did the best he could, then implying that thinking the situation through would have provided him with a better alternative, is kind of a contradiction. Please elaborate.

[Swan Targ]

I think they cared for each other, I don't think they were in love

[Not-a-Weirwood-Tree]

I think they cared for each other, I don't think they were in love

True true. After she died, we see Jon was very affected of by Ygritte, which I think caused him to try to take in the wildlings at the wall. But on the other side, Jon was a virgin so he would became attached to his first anyway.

[Swan Targ]

Any chance of love between them died the moment Ygritte killed the old man. It was at that moment Jon realised they could never be together in the real world. They were too different.

I agree with this

[DaveSnow House Stark]

It could never have worked out with Jon as a wildling. What lies south of the wall? Winterfell. Does anyone think Jon would harm his home or any surviving Starks? No chance in hell.

[Morienthar]

Saying that he did the best he could, then implying that thinking the situation through would have provided him with a better alternative, is kind of a contradiction. Please elaborate.

He was 15 and stupid and thought he was in love and was torn between his duty and his new found love and then convinced himself that duty led him to Ygritte,If he was a smarter kid he'd have thought his decision on whether to sleep with her or not through,He could have told her he was gay or something the wildlings seem to be more accepting of that sort of things.

[finger]

I think there's a good reason Ygritte wanted to just stay in the cave. Even though they did love each other (and they did), I dont think Ygritte fully believed Jon had left the NW; she wanted to, but she didn't.

It's like that guy(or girl, whatever you prefer) you date, you KNOW is wrong for you, and half of your brain is lying to the other half (he's soooo special!) that is sitting around waiting for him to make that dreaded mistake.

In other words, she knew it wasn't a question of if he'd go back, but when.

If they had just stayed in the cave, they wouldn't have had to answer any of those questions.

Circumstances are usually the quite destructive for most young loves.

Love isn't necessarily forever.

For Jon and Ygritte, the time and space in which their love existed was beyond the wall, in that cave.

What do you mean? :devil: