Another Ned Stark Theory

[the trees have eyes]

I was walking on the street listening some music and I started to think about Lady Dustin, when she said if she knew where Ned's bones are, she'll take it and won't let him to be sepulted in the crypts, as he failed to bring her husband's bones from Dorne

I started to think: well, why? why no bones came back to the North? Maybe because there are no bodies at all?

I wonder if there was really a fight at ToJ or maybe a conversation? They knew Aerys was dead and also Rhaegar, and his children (exeption to Jon), and they would probably got executed because they didn't want to bend the knee to Robert (I think they were too loyal to the Targaryens)

So Ned planned, after he saw he's sister dying and taking Jon with him, that some people need to disappear, so he asked his bannermen to go across the Narrow Sea with the 3 KG and wait there, no matter for how long, and his bannermen accepted and so the 3 KG. That's why they couldn't take the bones North, there were no bones. I know they were at war, but at that point the war was over, so they could ask men to take the bodies North, I think there were ally armies next to them, who could have helped with this duty, Northerns really cared about this sepulting stuff.

And he jusr asked Howland Reed to stay to make it more real, you see, the two survivors of a great fight and Howland was a close friend.

That made me think, is Ned a loyalist to the Targaryens? (Exeption to the Mad King)

He never spoke ill of Rhaegar, he seems to admire him. Do you think he was involved in some conspiracy to take the Dragons back to power, as he was at that time a bit upset with Robert joy in killing Targaryens children. And surely he was upset with the Lannisters, he always saw them as big traitors.

And we don't even know who Ned's mother was or is (we don't know if she's alive or dead), nobody mentioned about her, was or is she a Targaryen? Why Ned's mother isn't at Winterfell? or at least is not mentioned at all?

well, after all this babbling I ask: Was Ned Stark a posible Targaryen's friend? Was he wishing the return of Targaryen dinasty? Was he playing all these years to be happy with Robert's reign? He seems to be a bit distant of Robert during those 15 years, never went to KL to see his best friend, strange, don't you think?

No. not at all. And Robert simply meant that Ned would have been better suited to kingship than Robert himself. Given how bad a king Robert was that's not saying much and there is no reason to suspect Ned's mother of being a Targaryen. Ned was the warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell, it's not something that would be kept secret! It's not mentioned because it's not relevant, any more than knowing who Catelyn's mother was or Tywin's. Robert justified taking the crown on the fact that he had the closest blood ties to House Targaryen of any of the other Houses. Robert and Ned were close as brothers and Ned was Robert's man, not a reluctant one either. And there is nothing strange about a man sholdering the burden of rule in the North not going on a road trip to Court, particularly as he despises the court intrigue and sycophancy. As for the ToJ, we don't know what happened except for Ned's dream in KL when injured. The whole dream sequence is about the Kingsguard preparing for battle and Ned's sad ending line "No, now it ends" in response to the White Bull's "now it begins" show it is a memory of battle and death and sadness not of a conversation and secret pact. Only Ned and Howland rode away afterwards, i.e.only they lived to be able to ride away.

[Ice Stark]

Even if he was a secret Targ loyalist, noone would believe it considering the way he fought for Robert. he loved Bob to the core

[Bawn]

Well in the first book Ned dreams of the battle he had with the 3 KG so for that reason, no.

[TheLostStark]

Well there was certainly a conversation before the fight. As for the bones, it would've been very difficult to bring them back, especially considering Ned's party was down to two men after the fight. Also, Ned was clearly Robert's man; the book makes that clear. He didn't think about Rhaegar for year, loves Robert, etc...

Yet he had enough people around to tear that town down.

[Mikkel]

and he said: Your claim was better than mine

so, he didn't say: I have no claim, he said Robert's claim was better

so that put some posibility he has some Targ blood, maybe an unknown Targaryen, maybe a cousin to the royal family (his mother maybe)

Nope, just means that as (one of) the leaders of the victorious rebellion - and the first to enter King's Landing, Tywin hardly counts in anyone's book, Ned could have claimed Kingship (if the other leaders had supported him, and if he'd wanted it, two things that wasn't going to happen), by right of conquest. Robert had the added bonus of his Baratheon blood though, so his claim was decided to be even better.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Nope, just means that as (one of) the leaders of the victorious rebellion - and the first to enter King's Landing, Tywin hardly counts in anyone's book, Ned could have claimed Kingship (if the other leaders had supported him, and if he'd wanted it, two things that wasn't going to happen), by right of conquest. Robert had the added bonus of his Baratheon blood though, so his claim was decided to be even better.

They already have chosen Bob as their leader when the Rebellion stormed, so I think there's something more into it

we don't know about Ned's mother, what is odd, I don't believe she's a northner, I think she was a Targaryen or part Targaryen

[Lady Nastja]

Well there was certainly a conversation before the fight. As for the bones, it would've been very difficult to bring them back, especially considering Ned's party was down to two men after the fight. Also, Ned was clearly Robert's man; the book makes that clear. He didn't think about Rhaegar for year, loves Robert, etc...

True. I also raise the point: If Ned was such a loyal Targaryen, why help lead the Rebellion? IMO, he doesn't mislike Rhaegar because Lyanna told Ned that he was a good guy and that she loved him. Also, his mother was not a Targaryen. If she was, I'm sure Robert would have blamed Ned's softness on the murder of Aegon and Rhaenys on his "Targaryen blood". IIRC, she was a Flint and it is believed that she is dead.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

True. I also raise the point: If Ned was such a loyal Targaryen, why help lead the Rebellion? IMO, he doesn't mislike Rhaegar because Lyanna told Ned that he was a good guy and that she loved him. Also, his mother was not a Targaryen. If she was, I'm sure Robert would have blamed Ned's softness on the murder of Aegon and Rhaenys on his "Targaryen blood". IIRC, she was a Flint and it is believed that she is dead.

He was in the rebellion's side because his head was in the stick too, Aerys wanted Ned dead as well

but I believe if Rhaegar claimed the throne to himself, Ned wouldn't be against

he just had to fight, because the Mad King wanted him dead as well

[Lady Nastja]

He was in the rebellion's side because his head was in the stick too, Aerys wanted Ned dead as well

but I believe if Rhaegar claimed the throne to himself, Ned wouldn't be against

he just had to fight, because the Mad King wanted him dead as well

You may be right and you certainly have some good points, but I still don't think Ned was really pro-Targ. I think he would have liked Rhaegar as King, but he really only looks out for his family.

[The Bear]

Why would you think his mother was part Targ just because he never said anything explicitly negative about Rhaegar? For one thing, Ned was the biggest key figure in Robert's Rebellion apart from Robert. Brandon, Lyanna, Ned and Benjen are all physically described and don't have ANY Targ features. All Targs in the books more or less have at least one Targ trait because of the long history of incest, including bastards. There are very few exceptions. None of Ned's kids have Targ features either. If they had Targ blood at least one of them would have purple eyes or white blonde hair.

The only part of this theory that I feel holds any water is the idea something more than R+L=J happened at the ToJ that we don't know about.

I think Ned knew Rhaegar didn't kidnap and rape his sister. That's enough reason not to think anything explicitly negative about him. Apart from "kidnapping and raping" Lyanna the evidence points to Rhaegar being a smart and fairly reasonable man. If he didn't hurt Lyanna there's no reason for him to say anything bad about him, even if he is on the opposing side during the Rebellion.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Why would you think his mother was part Targ just because he never said anything explicitly negative about Rhaegar? For one thing, Ned was the biggest key figure in Robert's Rebellion apart from Robert. Brandon, Lyanna, Ned and Benjen are all physically described and don't have ANY Targ features. All Targs in the books more or less have at least one Targ trait because of the long history of incest, including bastards. There are very few exceptions. None of Ned's kids have Targ features either. If they had Targ blood at least one of them would have purple eyes or white blonde hair.

The only part of this theory that I feel holds any water is the idea something more than R+L=J happened at the ToJ that we don't know about.

I think Ned knew Rhaegar didn't kidnap and rape his sister. That's enough reason not to think anything explicitly negative about him. Apart from "kidnapping and raping" Lyanna the evidence points to Rhaegar being a smart and fairly reasonable man. If he didn't hurt Lyanna there's no reason for him to say anything bad about him, even if he is on the opposing side during the Rebellion.

I know he was Robert's friend, they grew together as brothers

but I think Martin is hiding something about Ned's mother, no name, no house was revealed so far, we don't know if she's alive or dead

and Ned never talked ill of the Targaryens, even that Aerys had killed his father and brother, so I think that maybe he respected them and maybe he wouldn't like to talk ill because he would offend his mother?

well, I hope Martin reveals Lady Stark origin in the next two books

[Mikkel]

They already have chosen Bob as their leader when the Rebellion stormed, so I think there's something more into it

we don't know about Ned's mother, what is odd, I don't believe she's a northner, I think she was a Targaryen or part Targaryen

If she was a Targaryan, it would definitely have come up by now. While we can't rule it out (proving a negative) I feel it wouldn't make any sense if she turns out to be one - if she matters at all.

Robert's comments that Ned should have been King instead is simply him realizing that he's a terrible King, and any of the other leaders of the rebellion would have done a better job - I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

and Ned never talked ill of the Targaryens, even that Aerys had killed his father and brother, so I think that maybe he respected them and maybe he wouldn't like to talk ill because he would offend his mother?

Nah, he just doesn't buy into Robert's hatred, and since Aerys is long dead, he's sensible enough not to hate everyone with the same name (holding onto the pain of the past didn't exactly do old Bobby B much good did it).

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

If she was a Targaryan, it would definitely have come up by now. While we can't rule it out (proving a negative) I feel it wouldn't make any sense if she turns out to be one - if she matters at all.

Robert's comments that Ned should have been King instead is simply him realizing that he's a terrible King, and any of the other leaders of the rebellion would have done a better job - I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

I think Martin is hiding her identity because there's something impling in there

well, I hope Martin reveals it, so we can see who is Ned's mother

I think she's alive, I don't know why she left Winterfell

[Mikkel]

I think Martin is hiding her identity because there's something impling in there

well, I hope Martin reveals it, so we can see who is Ned's mother

I think she's alive, I don't know why she left Winterfell

I'm not ruling out that Ned's mother could end up mattering, but I'm patently against her being a Targ - and I'm leaning towards her simply being a minor noblewoman of good Northern stock, and most likely dead (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar). Still, I will join you in hoping we'll get to know eventually, though I'm not sure who or why it'd be brought up at this stage in the story.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I'm not ruling out that Ned's mother could end up mattering, but I'm patently against her being a Targ - and I'm leaning towards her simply being a minor noblewoman of good Northern stock, and most likely dead (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar). Still, I will join you in hoping we'll get to know eventually, though I'm not sure who or why it'd be brought up at this stage in the story.

Bran had a glimpse of her in the Gods Wood when he was warging, he saw a woman there with feeling of vengance, and some people believe she's Lord Rickard's wife

[King of Winters]

Bran had a glimpse of her in the Gods Wood when he was warging, he saw a woman there with feeling of vengance, and some people believe she's Lord Rickard's wife

Could you provide a quote?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Could you provide a quote?

I just remember badly, that's why I'm re-reading all the books

when I read first time I skip the details, LOL, now I'm paying more atention

but Bran saw Lyanna and Benjen, and he kept going more to the past, and I think he saw a pregnant woman in the godswood, I saw some people quoting the books saying the woman was seeking ravange

here, this topic:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/58767-eddards-mother-aka-lady-stark/

[Glenn of House Patrick]

The secret Targ theory has been drowned more times than Damphair, but, of course, what is dead may never die!

[King of Winters]

I just remember badly, that's why I'm re-reading all the books

when I read first time I skip the details, LOL, now I'm paying more atention

but Bran saw Lyanna and Benjen, and he kept going more to the past, and I think he saw a pregnant woman in the godswood, I saw some people quoting the books saying the woman was seeking ravange

here, this topic:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/58767-eddards-mother-aka-lady-stark/

The thing with this is Targs were followers of The Faith, and the Lady is praying to the Old Gods. If she were from The South then they'd have built a Sept like they did for Cat.

[Glenn of House Patrick]

The thing with this is Targs were followers of The Faith, and the Lady is praying to the Old Gods. If she were from The South then they'd have built a Sept like they did for Cat.

:owned: