[Book Spoilers] Joffrey and Ser Mandon Moore

[Zar Lannister]

The campaign for Cersei's humanization is greater than I thought, though. Basically, every terrible aspect of Cersei has been thrown into Joffrey. I guess somehow TV cersei is to draw some sympathy or her Lunacy is to be depicted as coming from a more logical place.

[go joff go]

I'm starting to wonder if show Cersei is lying about both the bastards and Tyrion. Its interesting that we now have Varys word versus hers.

[Darkstar of Dayne]

The reason it had to be Cersei is because Jeoffrey is too arrogant and foolish to believe Tyrion can be a threat to him.....thus he would never have him killed....Cercei had the whole whole turn your dreams to ashes scense with him and had her daughter shipped to Dorne.....it was definately a conclusion that it was Cersei who gave the order.

Joffrey was not above trying to kill Bran by an assassin.

The point of this scene was to show that Joffrey is willing to kill people that he doesn't like (Bran, Tyrion) and he goes about it with stupidity - if he had simply poisoned Bran, it's highly likely that nobody would know exactly who gave the orders despite Catelyn having her suspicions about the Lannisters.

Also it's ironic because the Tyrells are extremely cunning and careful and use poison to kill Joffrey, which is the opposite of what he would do.

[bobbybuilderton]

In response to the "I liked that it might be Littlefinger," all I will say is

When the queen proclaims one king and the Hand proclaims another, who's peace do the gold cloaks protect? The man who pays them

[No true knight]

I thought that the show had already made this fairly explicit. Check out the Blackwater episode again. Before running away, Joffrey tells Mandon Moore to represent the King on the battlefield. Moore nods, and they both glance at Tyrion.

At the time, I thought that the showrunners were doing this in order to take advantage of an older Joffrey than the book Joffrey. Older Joffrey gets to be a little more ruthless and cognizant of his power. So, just like they moved the order to kill Robert's bastards from Cersei to Joffrey, it looks like they also made Joffrey the one to put a hit out on Tyrion.

In fact, Joffrey only leaves the battle because he gets cold feet, but he was looking forward to spilling blood... it seems like Joffrey's original plan might have been to do in his uncle himself (with Moore providing backup support if things got hectic).

[Ser Areo Mace]

I don't know if we can say it was totally confirmed that Joff ordered it. I really don't see it being all that out there to think Mandon was acting alone in it.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

What's everyone's thoughts about the Tyrion/Cersei scene where we are pretty much straight up told that Joffrey was the one who ordered Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion during the Battle of the Blackwater? I kinda liked the theory that Littlefinger orchestrated it. :dunno:

That doesn't mean that LF couldn't have put the idea in Joffrey's head. For all we know LF put the idea in Joffrey's head to execute Ned.

[SpringIsTotallyOnTheWay]

This is the stand in for Tyrion figuring out that Joffrey hired the cutthroat to kill Bran and it gives Tyrion motive for the purple wedding.

I agree. In the TV show, Jaime is the one who sent the killer to Bran. So I think this is a replacement. Regardless of whats clear or not in the book, the show is making a deliberate choice to have it be Joffrey.

[Mark Antony]

That doesn't mean that LF couldn't have put the idea in Joffrey's head. For all we know LF put the idea in Joffrey's head to execute Ned.

Yeah i agree, i said this exact thing up thread :cheers:

[StarkTagaryen]

In response to the "I liked that it might be Littlefinger," all I will say is

When the queen proclaims one king and the Hand proclaims another, who's peace do the gold cloaks protect? The man who pays them

:agree:

[Andrew May]

wasn't it implied that it was littlefinger in the books though?

[stunningsteve]

I agree. In the TV show, Jaime is the one who sent the killer to Bran. So I think this is a replacement. Regardless of whats clear or not in the book, the show is making a deliberate choice to have it be Joffrey.

When exactly TV Jaime said that he was the one who sent the assassin?

[Sir Tony of Hibbert]

"I mean he could have poisoned me and no one would have been the wiser"..... Way to go Tyrion... just give them all the ideas they need....

I suspect that line will come back to haunt him in season 4.

[SpringIsTotallyOnTheWay]

When exactly TV Jaime said that he was the one who sent the assassin?

There's a scene between Cersei and Jaime in which Cersei kinda berates him for doing something so stupid and what if he gets caught, and Jaime responds saying he did it for them and he doesn't care if he gets caught, he'll kill everyone, including Robert, until only he and Cersei remain. Then they have sexy times, naturally b/c it turns Cersei on.

[stunningsteve]

There's a scene between Cersei and Jaime in which Cersei kinda berates him for doing something so stupid and what if he gets caught, and Jaime responds saying he did it for them and he doesn't care if he gets caught, he'll kill everyone, including Robert, until only he and Cersei remain. Then they have sexy times, naturally b/c it turns Cersei on.

Thx, found it. Yeah it's quite obvious in that scene that Jaime was the one who sent him. However I like the book version much better. I will miss Tyrion's comments about Valyrian Steel when Joffrey gets his sword.

[houseHB]

Still up for debate for all we know Littlefinger could have whispered in Joffrey's ear to have Ser Mandon kill Tyrion.

[Zar Lannister]

:agree:

In response to the "I liked that it might be Littlefinger," all I will say is

When the queen proclaims one king and the Hand proclaims another, who's peace do the gold cloaks protect? The man who pays them

Wait,

White Cloaks =/= Gold Cloaks

[SpringIsTotallyOnTheWay]

Thx, found it. Yeah it's quite obvious in that scene that Jaime was the one who sent him. However I like the book version much better. I will miss Tyrion's comments about Valyrian Steel when Joffrey gets his sword.

I like the book version a lot better too but I fear Tyrion putting the clues together was a bit too subtle and also too far removed from when the actual event happened for the TV viewers.

[bobbybuilderton]

Wait,

White Cloaks =/= Gold Cloaks

I'm aware. The point is that people go where there is money.

Tyrion is assuming it was one of the two people who can officially give orders. Which is odd, considering his brother is well known for betraying the king he was sworn to protect, so...

[WardenOfTheNerds]

There's a scene between Cersei and Jaime in which Cersei kinda berates him for doing something so stupid and what if he gets caught, and Jaime responds saying he did it for them and he doesn't care if he gets caught, he'll kill everyone, including Robert, until only he and Cersei remain. Then they have sexy times, naturally b/c it turns Cersei on.

What? Why would that scene prove Jaime to be the on behind the assassin, they are talking about it because Bran awakened (Jaime immediately asks "what has he told them?"), and Cersei refers to Jaime pushing Bran out of the window (this fits better the "it's a little too late to complain about that now" line). To me that scene is an obvious showcase of Lannisters learning that Bran is healing, not that Cersei learnt that Jaime sent someone to kill him.