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If half an onion is black with rot it is a rotten onion.


Penguin king

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In a Clash of Kings, Mel uses the metaphor of a rotten onion to explain to Davos that a man can not be both good and evil. If he's half rotten, then he's fully rotten. If there is any evil in his heart then he's a evil man. However, during my current re-read of Storm, I noticed that at Craster's keep, Sam is given an onion that is black and rotted on one side, but instead of throwing it away, he cuts off the rot with his dagger and eats the good half raw.

The symbolism here can't be accidental, but I'm not sure exactly what point Martin is trying to make. Does Sam's onion refer to Craster? Is he saying that despite marrying his daughters and leaving his sons out to die, Craster has some good in him, and freely offers the watch his food and shelter when he could have turned them away?

Or is the point that in times of need notions of good and evil are less important? That safe at castle black, sam would throw the rotten onion away, but now cold and hungry even half a raw onion is a godsend, and although Craster is an evil man, his assistance is much needed.

Or does the onion still refer to the onion knight, and Martin is subtly letting us know that Mel's take on morality and her judgement of Davos is wrong via a small reference in an unrelated POV?

It seems too direct a reference to just be coincidence.

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You make many good points, and I believe it boils down to greyness, in the end.

But also, the imagery of cutting off a "bad" part to have something good reminds me of the Jon's necessity to kill the boy so the man rises.

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You make a good point, and I think it does refer to Davos. It means that Mel is wrong - If half an onion is rotten, it isn't a rotten onion, the other half is still good - It shows that Davos is definietly a good guy :)

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In a Clash of Kings, Mel uses the metaphor of a rotten onion to explain to Davos that a man can not be both good and evil. If he's half rotten, then he's fully rotten. If there is any evil in his heart then he's a evil man. However, during my current re-read of Storm, I noticed that at Craster's keep, Sam is given an onion that is black and rotted on one side, but instead of throwing it away, he cuts off the rot with his dagger and eats the good half raw.

The symbolism here can't be accidental, but I'm not sure exactly what point Martin is trying to make. Does Sam's onion refer to Craster? Is he saying that despite marrying his daughters and leaving his sons out to die, Craster has some good in him, and freely offers the watch his food and shelter when he could have turned them away?

Or is the point that in times of need notions of good and evil are less important? That safe at castle black, sam would throw the rotten onion away, but now cold and hungry even half a raw onion is a godsend, and although Craster is an evil man, his assistance is much needed.

Or does the onion still refer to the onion knight, and Martin is subtly letting us know that Mel's take on morality and her judgement of Davos is wrong via a small reference in an unrelated POV?

It seems too direct a reference to just be coincidence.

I had found this as well. I think it's plainly showing us that extremism is not good, that Mel is wrong with her black and white views of the world, and that nothing is simply good or evil. Which, in it's own, is a major theme in aSoIaF.

ETA: I don't think it's specific about Sam, Davos or Craster, but a much larger thematical/philosophical point.

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I think it's a lesson of the books, through all grey characters that people seeing just black and white like Mellissandre (or say Eddard looking at Jaime) are wrong.

Lots of characters have some evil in their hearts and aren't evil.

And even the most rotten ones like Craster may have a good side.

The onion may just be a subtile way to say that.

It may also illustrate Sam position compared to the other members of the Nightswatch : Sam is acceptive of the small good part given to him (see the glass as half full), when the others are going to see Craster glass half empty and kill him.

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The only answer is the one that Samwell gives.

He picked an onion, and cuted the rotten part, eating after that the healthy part of the onion.

Melisandre way is dumb and dangerous - doesn´t exist evil or good people; exist people that make good or evil deeds, and we must use the capacity for good, and let aside the capacity for evil.

We are all grey creatures, capables of doing the best or the worst.

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Wow that is a really good catch - I think the symbolism is clear though and that it is that redemption is possible, evil can be expunged from an individual. Though whether this is just something Sam believes or something that will become an overarching theme of ASOIAF we won't know until the end of aDoS.

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A great catch there man, but I don't believe the onion has to refer to Craster, Sam or Davos in particular. It could refer to any of those three, but we know Davos and Samwell rather closely and know there's no "rot" in them.

It could be a overall reference to any character, perhaps even Jaime who becomes a better man once his "rot" (sword-hand) is cut off.

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That Mel is bonkers. Her outlook is incredibly unrealistic, and not at all practical, and Sam is showing it.

Also, IIRC, immediately following that Davos chapter is a Bran one where Jojen talks about balance in some form (can't really remember). Interesting that he'd have someone immediately oppose Mel's beliefs.

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Cheers for all the replies. I think the majority probably has it right, and that GRRM's trying to make a general statement rather than a point about any specific character. I'm still curious as to why he chose to make it at that point rather than in one of Davos's chapters, but I guess that might have been too obvious.

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...I'm still curious as to why he chose to make it at that point rather than in one of Davos's chapters, but I guess that might have been too obvious.

It is the way that GRRM operates. Action in one POV is a commentary on something that happened in another - quite often. Entire POVs parallel each other, or are there in contrast. Bits of information are scattered between POVs so as the reader we can understand things that are unclear to the reader.

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It is the way that GRRM operates. Action in one POV is a commentary on something that happened in another - quite often. Entire POVs parallel each other, or are there in contrast. Bits of information are scattered between POVs so as the reader we can understand things that are unclear to the reader.

This is the right of it. I would only add that onions have many layers, and can make you cry whether you want to or not, (like Martin's characters). As for the fact that an onion when eaten can effect one's breath (most often in a negative and repelling way) eating onions may reflect a desire for separation based upon the senses rather than upon reason.

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funny this sentence is somehow the opposite of this Stannis quote :

“A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward"

I would say that Sam's act is a commentary on Stannis' justice too.

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OP, great observation, and nice parallel. I really like it.

But, it`s all how people see it? Melisandre is half right. We can forgive, but never forget the crimes. Jaime can`t be given free card for throwing Bran off the window, but when you see his sufferings and his amputation, you understand that rotten part of onion can be indeed cut off. Melisandre`s view on rotten onions is something very closely to Ned`s naive view on the world. But, Melisandre is nothing like Ned, and she can deal with both rotten and healthy part of onion.

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