[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Hound's She-wolf]

But she's a whore, she goes wherever the money is (is that where whores go?), she made that very clear. Also, she was just saving her own skin. Didn't turn out as she planned, but knowing what she knew at the time and given the circumstances she was in, testifying against Tyrion was the smart thing to do.

It's funny you'd bring up Bronn, cause Bronn basically betrayed Tyrion too but no one gives him flak.

Yes for the first part. Shae gets blamed for trying to save herself and that drives me nuts.

Second part, I wouldn't call it a betrayal but a refusal to help.

[Mendoza]

There's a way Tyrion doesn't kill either. He just gives both the lecture they deserve.

Shae is chained to the bed and can't do anything, then Tywin emerges from the pot, but what's really going on is he's poisoned by House Tyrell. His father falls from the poison and in his dying breath, Tywin acknowledges dwarf-Ned as his son and urges him to bring peace to the realm. Cerei then makes Shae into fake Arya.

[Pellaeon]

There's a way Tyrion doesn't kill either. He just gives both the lecture they deserve.

Shae is chained to the bed and can't do anything, then Tywin emerges from the pot, but what's really going on is he's poisoned by House Tyrell. His father falls from the poison and in his dying breath, Tywin acknowledges dwarf-Ned as his son and urges him to bring peace to the realm. Cerei then makes Shae into fake Arya.

But how can fake Ned bring peace to the realm he must keep his vows protecting his wife first and Cersei, the good loving sister she is must volunteer to help him of course

[bobbybuilderton]

There's a way Tyrion doesn't kill either. He just gives both the lecture they deserve.

Shae is chained to the bed and can't do anything, then Tywin emerges from the pot, but what's really going on is he's poisoned by House Tyrell. His father falls from the poison and in his dying breath, Tywin acknowledges dwarf-Ned as his son and urges him to bring peace to the realm. Cerei then makes Shae into fake Arya.

If this happens I will quit everything. This would be a Dumbledore level deviation for me lol. DIDYA PUCHA NAYME IN DA GOBLEDDAFIYA

[WardenOfTheNerds]

I'd say Bronn's case and Shae's are different. I can understand Bronn not wanting to fight the mountain for Tyrion. But being a witness in a trial that results in a death sentence when you know that all you say is a lie, well that's as bad as trying to kill someone in my eyes. I am not absolving Tyrion, he murdered her, no denying that crime. But i feel no sympathy for the bitch, she totally had it coming. Obviously show Share betrayal will probably be a dramatic culmination of their love story.

[Penguin king]

But she's a whore, she goes wherever the money is (is that where whores go?), she made that very clear. Also, she was just saving her own skin. Didn't turn out as she planned, but knowing what she knew at the time and given the circumstances she was in, testifying against Tyrion was the smart thing to do.

It's funny you'd bring up Bronn, cause Bronn basically betrayed Tyrion too but no one gives him flak.

There's a difference between not helping someone and actively hurting them. If Shae had refused to testify that's one thing, but presenting false testimony to get Tyrion convicted for murder is active betrayal.

Being a whore is no excuse. I pay my dentist money to look after my teeth, but I don't expect other people to bribe him to lie about me in court. Smart or not, It was selfish, mean spirited, and dare i say it evil.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

There's a difference between not helping someone and actively hurting them. If Shae had refused to testify that's one thing, but presenting false testimony to get Tyrion convicted for murder is active betrayal.

Being a whore is no excuse. I pay my dentist money to look after my teeth, but I don't expect other people to bribe him to lie about me in court. Smart or not, It was selfish, mean spirited, and dare i say it evil.

Exactly.

[Penguin king]

Yes for the first part. Shae gets blamed for trying to save herself and that drives me nuts.

At Tyrions expense. If there's a bomb in the room and I throw you on top of it to save myself is that justifiable? If i'm dying of liver disease but I pay a man to kill you and take your liver is that ok?

[Roose Seal]

At Tyrions expense. If there's a bomb in the room and I throw you on top of it to save myself is that justifiable? If i'm dying of liver disease but I pay a man to kill you and take your liver is that ok?

So Shae was supposed to tell the truth and most probably be executed so Tyrion could walk free? Sure that would've been noble of her but considering how much a dick Tyrion had been with her, I don't really blame her for trying to save herself.

I dunno, I'll leave it at that. I've already discussed this more than I care for in the books forum a while back and I just became more entrenched in my original view of the situation, so I respecfully bow out :)

[Penguin king]

However Willas was a marriage she was offered and agreed to. The Tyrells had no reason to kill her or harm her and their non involvement in the RW meant a son of Sansa and Willas could rule the north, where a grandson of Tywin Lannister's couldn't. The Lannisters forced a Jailor upon her, whereas the Tyrells offered her a marriage. In one instance there is acgency and consent, in the other there is force and rape. The Lannisters planned to kill her at worst and keep her a permenant prisoner at best.

The Tyrells are also an awful choice, but at least they gave her a choice.

What choice? Stay at court and risk rape from Joffery, or come live with us in a gilded cage. Or the mystery option, Sail to sea with Dontos the Drunkard. Yeah Sansa's got a hell of a lot of agency there. The Tyrells were only interested in her for her Claim, their motives are no different to Tywin's they're just a lot better at disguising them.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

So Shae was supposed to tell the truth and most probably be executed so Tyrion could walk free? Sure that would've been noble of her but considering how much a dick Tyrion had been with her, I don't really blame her for trying to save herself.

I dunno, I'll leave it at that. I've already discussed this more than I care for in the books forum a while back and I just became more entrenched in my original view of the situation, so I respecfully bow out :)

No, she could not testify at all. But she chose to lie in court at a murder trial, seriously how is that different from trying to kill someone? Oh and saying that it's justified because Tyrion was a dick to her is basically as good as justifying Tyrion for killing her, works both ways really.

[Hound's She-wolf]

At Tyrions expense. If there's a bomb in the room and I throw you on top of it to save myself is that justifiable? If i'm dying of liver disease but I pay a man to kill you and take your liver is that ok?

Tyrion was already going to be found guilty, Tywin, Mace and Oberon wouldn't give a shit what a lowly maid said in court, Mace and Tywin thought he was guilty all along, the only reason she was there was because Cersei wanted to embarrass Tyrion and wound him in every way possible.

She may have been there because Cersei promised her money, (I think book Shae should have learned her lesson though, Tyrion promised her a whole bunch of stuff and then either never gave it or took it back) or she could have been there because she was threatened by Cersei. Cersei said she was going to personally interrogate Sansa's maids, and after she tossed her maid to Qyburn for his experiments I have no doubt that she probably used a combination or threats and empty promises to get what she wanted.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Tyrion was already going to be found guilty, Tywin, Mace and Oberon wouldn't give a shit what a lowly maid said in court, Mace and Tywin thought he was guilty all along, the only reason she was there was because Cersei wanted to embarrass Tyrion and wound him in every way possible.

She may have been there because Cersei promised her money, (I think book Shae should have learned her lesson though, Tyrion promised her a whole bunch of stuff and then either never gave it or took it back) or she could have been there because she was threatened by Cersei. Cersei said she was going to personally interrogate Sansa's maids, and after she tossed her maid to Qyburn for his experiments I have no doubt that she probably used a combination or threats and empty promises to get what she wanted.

That doesn't make it more fair at all. Are you going to say it's ok that Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon because like a dozen other people did it as well so the wounds were going to be pretty bad anyways?

[David Selig]

Tyrion deserved death for his various other crimes and he was going to be convicted anyway with or without Shae. So I don't think it was wrong of her to testify, that was her major chance to improve her life significantly.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Tyrion deserved death for his various other crimes and he was going to be convicted anyway with or without Shae. So I don't think it was wrong of her to testify, that was her major chance to improve her life significantly.

True. It is also true that Shae deserved death after testifying.

[David Selig]

True. It is also true that Shae deserved death after testifying.

Not at all. Tyrion wasn't executed.

[Hound's She-wolf]

That doesn't make it more fair at all. Are you going to say it's ok that Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon because like a dozen other people did it as well so the wounds were going to be pretty bad anyways?

If that was her best option for escaping Cersei and Tywin? I can see why she did it. Your examples are not comparable, like apples and oranges. No one was holding Bowen Marsh under their thumb, he was not questioned by the Queen who is not above using torture.

And why would she deserve to die? Because she lied? Her lie in no way affected Tyrion except to embarrass him.

At Tyrions expense. If there's a bomb in the room and I throw you on top of it to save myself is that justifiable? If I'm dying of liver disease but I pay a man to kill you and take your liver is that ok?

Tyrion's fate was already decided by two of the judges. The only thing at stake was his pride, which Cersei also wanted damaged.

As far as the bomb example-if I'm going to die anyway- does it really matter if you throw me on it? It just makes you a self serving dick. And the liver disease example-that would be more along the lines of Cersei not Shae.

[Penguin king]

Tyrion deserved death for his various other crimes and he was going to be convicted anyway with or without Shae. So I don't think it was wrong of her to testify, that was her major chance to improve her life significantly.

What crimes?

About the only one i can think of is him killing symon silver tongue, who was himself trying to blackmail Tyrion into having another singer take out so that he could play at Joffry's wedding. It's not like Tyrion had a lot of other options there. He could have had Bronn beat some poor innocent bard bloody so that Symon could take his place. Or he could have called Symon's bluff and risked Shae's life and his own reputation. He tried bribing the guy to go away but he wouldn't take the cash. What else could he do?

[Theda Baratheon]

True. It is also true that Shae deserved death after testifying.

For lying?

Why does that deserve death?

Because she was a whore, and acted ''like a bitch'' and lied to save herself and possibly for the promise of a better life?

Why does she deserve to die for this?

[David Selig]

What crimes?

Treason (supporting a king known to be illegitimate), arming the clansmen in the Vale (which led to the deaths ofhundreds if not thousands of peaceful smallfolk), burning thousands alive at Blackwater in order to keep a sadistic psychopath on the Throne, the murder of Symon, giving the Antler Men to Joff...