[Book Spoilers] Talisa is pregnant?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

Everyone in the North would recognize Robb's will.

They could give less than two fucks what the King on the Iron Throne has to say.

[tmug]

The cold glare Cat gives as she leaves the tent and the fact Talisa says "dont get greedy" at the mention of twins or more.

Just a bit of foreshadowing i suppose.

[TomBadgerlock]

If tywin made plans with Bolton and makes him warden of the north do think he'll tolerate roose keeping robb's heir when he has plans to use Sansa. And what's the point of betraying the father n killing him only to keep the son, he'll be a dagger at his back.

Why would the northern lords accept the Boltons as their overload, after years of faithfulness to the Starks? Why did the Bolton's need to have Ramsay marry "Arya" to keep them loyal?

[Dubbs]

Varys is from the free cities, does he speak volantese?

I'm not sure, though something tells me he probably does. We haven't seen him interact with Tywin at all though, and we have seen Tywin reading and writing letters in english without varys present. Haven't seen him with anything in another language.

[Broken Fox]

I'd imagine Varys is fluent in every language in the world!

[Katsa]

Jon might still get legitimized as a loving gesture from Robb - but Jon's "legitimization" hasn't come to much in the books, so I could see it being left out. Also, who would even recognize such legitimization? Robb's side lost, so his claim of being a "King" is entirely irrelevant and no one alive would likely recognize it. So the order is likely unenforceable.

You may wish to check this out: http://asoiaf.wester...acy-reexamined/ The original problem I had with this reveal (i.e. of Talisa's pregnancy) is that it sort of disproves the Northern Conspiracy. Not so much of whether ot not Talisa is a spy or if Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. It's simple: if Robb is aware that his wife is pregnant, he would have no reason to legitimise his bastard brother. (In fact, doing so would be stupid because it may create a conflict of succession in the future. Jon may not be greedy for the throne but Robb cannot be 100% certain that Jon's children will turn out the same way. After all, Steffon Baratheon was family friends with the ruling Targs but his sons rebelled against the Targs.)

Personally, I do not think that Jon will be KitN or that Robb's decree with materialise in a way that most fans think it will. I think that Robb's will is more of a character development opportunity for Jon. Winterfell had always been Jon's deepest most desperate desire. I think Jon, himself, was secretly afraid of what he may do if he gave in to that desire (thus his dream about slaying Robb to become Lord of Winterfell in ADwD and that bitter memory of Robb reminding him that he could never have Winterfell when fighting with Iron Emmett in ASoS). It was difficult enough for him to turn down Winterfell when it was offered to him by Stannis, although I would agree that Stannis's fanatical conditions made it a clear choice in the end. But having Winterfell offered to him by Robb without any strings attached? It would be one hell of a temptation, even though I am confident that Jon will do the right thing and refuse it. He has bigger fish to fry (i.e. the Others) and Winterfell would just never be his.

To cut the long short, you may view Robb's will as inconsequential but I beg to differ. :)

[Rhaegarsjoy]

Why would the northern lords accept the Boltons as their overload, after years of faithfulness to the Starks? Why did the Bolton's need to have Ramsay marry "Arya" to keep them loyal?

Having arya (even fake) and ruling thru her is different than keeping the The Lord of winterfell and true warden of the north alive.

[a free shadow]

Honestly, I was down with the "spy" theory until she told Robb she was pregnant. Now I think she's going to die as more of a gut punch to the viewers. If she's a spy, she has no reason to tell Robb she's pregnant. He's going to the Red Wedding anyway, so what purpose does that particular lie serve? I almost think D&D might be trolling viewers who are into the spy theory at this point by having her constantly write letters on screen.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong and she could be a spy. They've certainly set that possibility up. I just don't see the point after tonight.

She still could be a spy, who is now pregnant with the legitimate heir to Winterfell. She tells that to Robb, in hopes that the fact will be established and made known among the Northern lords. Because not all of those lords will be slaughtered (hostages, survivors and such).

[Rhaegarsjoy]

The cold glare Cat gives as she leaves the tent and the fact Talisa says "dont get greedy" at the mention of twins or more.

Just a bit of foreshadowing i suppose.

That scene and cat talking about praying for Jon makes me think that cat might tell robb to legitimise Jon, because its be years before the baby is grown, it could be a girl, and its just a backup because Jon IS STILL in the NW and can't leave. So someone (blackfish) can keep the documents in save keeping n not tell Jon unless they have to.

[TomBadgerlock]

Having arya (even fake) and ruling thru her is different than keeping the The Lord of winterfell and true warden of the north alive.

Not really. Arya still had a better claim to Winterfell than any Bolton.

[KoishNoish]

When I watched this I was originally convinced she was writing to Tywin but then she said she pregnant. What does this mean? Robb has no reason to legitimize Jon and right now I don't think anyone has heard news on Sansa's wedding yet. Since Talisa's pregnant will he not change his will? We still don't know what the will is since Mr Reed has taken so long in getting it to Jon. I think most of us assume the will disinherits Sansa and legitimizes Jon due to the conversation Robb has with Cat before altering it but now that he has a heir on the way there's no reason to legitimize Jon. Does that mean he won't bother to disinherit Sansa and she will, by birthright, inherit the North? I really want to see the next episode.

[The King of Ashes]

And I have a big feeling you're just overreacting. Seems to be a common thing around here...

Well, I'm not like many of the other posters in that I don't think the deviations are a problem. The books are the books and the show is the show, and I can enjoy the books as they are. The show going off in different directions is actually more interesting to me than sticking to the source material as I find myself getting surprised. But you cannot deny that as the series gradually progresses it moves further and further from the novels in terms of where the story is branching off to. But as I said, its not an issue to me.

[Katsa]

<snip>

My sentiments, exactly.

By the way, does anyone else find it odd that Talisa decided to a letter to her mom right after some sex time while she was still naked as her name day? Like who does that?!!

[Belisarius09]

I really don't want Talisa to be a spy. I want Talisa to stay more true to the character of Jeyne Westerling. The loving wife on Robb Stark.

Things I'm cool with:

1.If shes pregnant

2.If she has a miscarriage

3.If she dies at the wedding , it will make the RW that much more devastating.

4.If she escapes the RW

5.If shes taken prisoner at the RW

6. If she doesn't go to the RW, but returns to Riverrun with Blackfish instead

Things I'm not cool with:

1. Blackfish going to the RW and dying or being taken prisoner

2. Talisa being a spy

[Rhaegarsjoy]

When I watched this I was originally convinced she was writing to Tywin but then she said she pregnant. What does this mean? Robb has no reason to legitimize Jon and right now I don't think anyone has heard news on Sansa's wedding yet. Since Talisa's pregnant will he not change his will? We still don't know what the will is since Mr Reed has taken so long in getting it to Jon. I think most of us assume the will disinherits Sansa and legitimizes Jon due to the conversation Robb has with Cat before altering it but now that he has a heir on the way there's no reason to legitimize Jon. Does that mean he won't bother to disinherit Sansa and she will, by birthright, inherit the North? I really want to see the next episode.

Next episode is Sansa/Tyrion's wedding maybe when they get to the twins they will hear about it and cat will tell robb to legitimise Jon as a backup. Or Talisa n her mother are combined and she betrays robb. Maybe they want all those that betray robb in one location Bolton, walder, and Talisa/Sybil.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

I think Robb will at least have to legitimize Jon.

Think about it. The baby will take 9 months to be born.

If Robb dies in those 9 months before he's born then Sansa inherits and then the baby if it's alive. There's no give backsies.

If Talisa has a miscarriage and Robb dies, Sansa inherits.

If Robb dies and the baby dies before it can ever procreate, Sansa inherits.

Jon could be the back up in case anything bad happens.

[HyacinthGirl]

Awfully convenient that she gets to write her spy letters in foreign language nobody else there can read.

I'm now firmly in the Talisa-is-a-Lannister-spy camp. I wasn't before, but the "yeeeeah just writing a letter to my...um...mother, hey, don't look at your maps and think of strategies, look at how naked I am, I'm also totes preggers and not trying to distract you at all" scene brought me around.

At this point she is so different to Jeyne that I wouldn't really mind her being a traitor to be honest, and I'd prefer it to her being some dramatic/romantic/spunky heroine queen during the RW. And it's the best possible explanation as to why he's bringing her to the wedding, as she knows she'll be safe. Really don't think she's actually pregnant.

I definitely wouldn't take this as confirmation that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant in the books (though I'm already kind of subscribed to that one, or at least wanting it to be true) as Jeyne and Talisa are completely different characters and are serving completely different plot functions. GRRM's said as much himself, I think.

Slightly off-topic, but why is the Blackfish with Robb and co? I'm all in favour for Blackfish screen time but he'll be turning back for Riverrun soon, right?

[Rhaegarsjoy]

^^ As making things Drammatic goes it would be cool if the blackfish jump in the water and scapes like the Westerling boy. After witnessing his family been murdered also makes him dislike edmure more for accepting Roslin's explanation that she's innocent.

[Danelle]

The original problem I had with this reveal (i.e. of Talisa's pregnancy) is that it sort of disproves the Northern Conspiracy. Not so much of whether ot not Talisa is a spy or if Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. It's simple: if Robb is aware that his wife is pregnant, he would have no reason to legitimise his bastard brother.

I agree!

Apparently, since the show's audience is consisted by people who haven't read the books, the creators do not think it is necessary to place emphasis on every single detail.

A good example is replacing Vargo with Locke. Vargo was a sellsword, who wanted to teach Tywin a lesson. In the books Jaime is maimed because his father was involved with the Bloody Mummers. Roose simply paid them to fight for him but otherwise they were not his men. Roose insisted that lord Tywin would knew that he had nothing to do with the sellswords. In the show Locke is from the North and he is a Bolton man. It would be very difficult, nearly impossible for Roose to absolve himself from Locke's crime and persuade Tywin that he had nothing to do with Jaime's punishment. In fact, a Northman cutting the hand of Jaime Lannister, would end the Lannister-Bolton alliance. Yet Jaime is going back to KL and Roose plans to attend the wedding of Edmure Tully...

Likewise, Robb can still name Jon as his heir. Even if Talisa is pregnant, they are still at war, Talisa's family are far away and Robb needs to know that in case that anything happens to him, the Stark heritage will continue. Sansa's wedding to Tyrion will make Robb realise that he is the last Stark and it will motivate him into naming Jon as his heir or Lord Protector if the North, until his son becomes an adult. Lady Catelyn and Blackfish can still have reason to oppose the idea and dislike Jon and hopefully they will mention the Blackfyres (has anyone mentioned the Blackfyre rebellion in the show yet? I can't remember...).

On the other hand, Talisa claiming to be pregnant in an episode written by GRRM, could mean a lot of things.

• She is who she claims to be. A girl from Volantis and currently pregnant with the heir to the North
  
• She is a spy,a combination of Jeyne and Sybelle, the letter was addressed to Tywin or Varys, she is lying to Robb, in order to distract him from the message
  

In the books Jeyne did not attend Edmure's wedding, because it would be an insult to Lord Frey. In the show it is really strange. Catelyn, courteous as usual, simply mistrusts Lord Walder. Blackfish is more blunt and it is clear that the Tullys have no reason to trust the Freys. Talisa's presence is obviously a mistake and yet she will be there. So,

• Talisa will die before Robb and it will further upset Lady Catelyn once she becomes LS
  
• Talisa will not die but she will be taken to the North and marry Roose or Ramsay, replacing Fat Walda and/or Jeyne Poole(I absolutely hate this outcome for so many reasons). Her child will be the new KITN and the Boltons will serve as guardians. Her presence will motivate Jon to rescue her?
  
• Talisa, not Roose will be the one to kill Robb
  

I really don't know what to think about her pregnancy...

I just hope that no matter what, they will remain faithfull to the main story.

[YTDN]

Judging from the fact they kept in the 'regards' line, I think Roose is still going to be the one to kill Robb. There's also no point in them having Talisa say she's pregnant if that is a lie- it doesn't add anything to the storyline or characters if she's a spy, while if she is genuine it either fits in with the Heir in the North theory, or if she dies it adds an extra gut-punch to the RW.

I still have faith that D&D are going to make the RW work, and I simply can't see how it will work if Talisa is a spy. I am 100% sure she will get murdered there, as part of the initial massacre, in front of Robb.