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[Book spoilers] Northern bannermen ( or lack thereof )


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But to be honest, the finer nuances of the RW are most likely lost on the casual viewer anyway. Whether they see a few loyal 'bannermen' getting killed, or a few no-name people getting killed won't make a great deal of difference to their perception anyway. In the books it's important that it's not just Robb + Cat dying, but most of the Northern Lords too because the books allow for a much greater context. However, on the show the latter is much less important. With the death of Robb and Cat, viewers will reach the same conclusion - that the Northern rebellion is effectively at an end.

It won't take much to get the odd character to mention post RW that "Robb's forces are now with Bolton", "those that remained loyal are either dead or in disarray" etc etc

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I don't think it needs to be "pulled out". It's been set up pretty well so far. The only complaint is "maybe his other lords won't be there", and I think you need to see what they do the next episode before concluding that.

no there are many many more complaints. Have you had a chance to peruse this thread?

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But to be honest, the finer nuances of the RW are most likely lost on the casual viewer anyway. Whether they see a few loyal 'bannermen' getting killed, or a few no-name people getting killed won't make a great deal of difference to their perception anyway. In the books it's important that it's not just Robb + Cat dying, but most of the Northern Lords too because the books allow for a much greater context. However, on the show the latter is much less important. With the death of Robb and Cat, viewers will reach the same conclusion - that the Northern rebellion is effectively at an end.

It won't take much to get the odd character to mention post RW that "Robb's forces are now with Bolton", "those that remained loyal are either dead or in disarray" etc etc

Doesnt mean its not a terrible disappointment to many many book readers who watch and done so poorly compared to the source material

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You have said ''No you don't'' twice to me now and I'm very confused as to what you mean. Either you have a point, or you don't. If you have a point, say it and if you don't, then don't reply to me.

It was a belated double post. The forum is running slow for me. My reply was to the first sentence in the post I quoted.

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No one is going to give a fuck about the RW the way they are so poorly handling it.

Not one of my friends ever talks about Robb or Catalyn after watching an episode. We have had pretty much no emotional investment in them this season.

The producers could change this with giving them a whole hour dedicated to the red wedding but it would just seem to forced now. Its the sam with Jon's story. Up until this episode we had non reason to like the wildlings or sympathise for them if they are killed.

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fair enough good sir

Just as an example, I don't think it is at all clear that viewers will be rooting for Robb v. Tywin, and that's just messed up. Robb was a flawed, somewhat naive leader, but he was still virtuous and honorable. Tywin is very intelligent, but a ruthless bastard who cares absolutly nothing about people unless they can do something for him. That distinction has been lost.

I did think that if you were going to have a Robb expository episode, like this last one, it would have been the perfect time to build some sympathy for him. Some talking about his father, and him trying to follow in his footsteps in terms of being a good lord, would have been a nice step. Instead, we got more Talisa.

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The porn is pretty much the only thing left in this show that makes me watch it, pls dont get rid of that as well

hahaha. I'm not sure if you're joking or being serious. But you're right. Maybe I should start watching this show as the comedy it really is, and not as an adaptation of ASoIaF, which it started as. I guess I would enjoy the show more like that.

My post was in response to the specific complaint about bannermen. If that wasn't clear, then I'm making it clear now.

Wait, I still don't get your post. You're saying that the only complaint about the set up of the RW is the lack of bannermen?

No you don't.

SHE DOESN'T WHAT??!!

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I barely like book Robb and my wife hasnt read the books. She barely cares about the Starks, in fact, she doesnt even mention them, focusing on KL and Dany oretty much exclusively. No monopoly on non-book readers for you my friend.

At least you agree the writing is crappy.

my fanboyism vs your delusional show apologism

.

Why would I apologize for an absolutely fantastic and successful show that in large parts has improved on the weaknesses of Martin's original material?

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It was a belated double post. The forum is running slow for me. My reply was to the first sentence in the post I quoted.

Then that's a pretty stupid thing to say as you are effectively telling me that a) there are no people that don't care for either Robb or Cat, I'd like to show you :

Not one of my friends ever talks about Robb or Catalyn after watching an episode. We have had pretty much no emotional investment in them this season.

The producers could change this with giving them a whole hour dedicated to the red wedding but it would just seem to forced now. Its the sam with Jon's story. Up until this episode we had non reason to like the wildlings or sympathise for them if they are killed.

kind of proes my point and you're also telling me that I'm somehow imagining all of the people in my life who watch and enjoy the show but don't give a fuck about Robb?

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Just as an example, I don't think it is at all clear that viewers will be rooting for Robb v. Tywin, and that's just messed up. Robb was a flawed, somewhat naive leader, but he was still virtuous and honorable. Tywin is very intelligent, but a ruthless bastard who cares absolutly nothing about people unless they can do something for him. That distinction has been lost.

I did think that if you were going to have a Robb expository episode, like this last one, it would have been the perfect time to build some sympathy for him. Some talking about his father, and him trying to follow in his footsteps in terms of being a good lord, would have been a nice step. Instead, we got more Talisa.

Ugh. I blame Tywin's scenes with Arya for that. They softened his character. I think Show!Tywin has more fans than Show!Robb. And the fact that Charles Dance is plying Tywin doesn't help.

People don't care about Robb as much as they care about Ned Stark's son and King In The North.

Eeerr..... that's not true. Many people care more about Tyrion than Robb. Now, more people care about Jaime and Brienne than Robb. And even more people care more about Dany than Robb.

I was implying that you don't have friends.

Ha! Ha! So funny (/sarcasm) Even if that was true, she would still have more than you.

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I wonder how many people liked Robb as they were reading the books before they read the RW, and how many retroactively liked him after the tragedy of the RW?

Also, people liking other characters is always going to happen, especially in a series like this. Can we stop throwing around huge generalisations like 'everyone loves Robb' or 'nobody cares about Robb'?

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I'd love to know what Clive Mantle turned down HBO for. Probably some crappy BBC sitcom.

He was already filming another show by the time HBO asked him to do season 2. By that point it was too late. They didn't ask him back for season 3.

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Woah guys, watch out, someones gonna break out a "yo momma" joke any minute now!

I hope not. I'm terrible at those jokes. I'd lose the game.

Off topic, but love your avatar.

I wonder how many people liked Robb as they were reading the books before they read the RW, and how many retroactively liked him after the tragedy of the RW?

Also, people liking other characters is always going to happen, especially in a series like this. Can we stop throwing around huge generalisations like 'everyone loves Robb' or 'nobody cares about Robb'?

I was always fond of Robb before the RW. But since the begining, I had the feeling that he was going to die, so I never got too attached to him. He was never one of my favorites, and did not become one after the RW. But I did want him to win :crying:

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