New Sample Chapter

[Jughead of the Round]

There's a new sample chapter from ADWD up on GRRM's website. It's one that's been read at cons, but yet to be seen in writing. Sample

[Wouter]

Thanks to point that out, and it's one of the most interesting of the sample chapters yet released.

[Jughead of the Round]

You're welcome. I know... I've been waiting for this one awhile.

[Werthead]

Although I enjoyed AFFC, I must admit it suffered for lacking Tyrion's unique voice. Interesting how this chapter parallels the Dany one and the final Arianne chapter in AFFC.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I also missed Tyrion. How could you not enjoy a line like this:

"How odd that you should mention your fair sister," said Illyrio, between snails. "The queen has offered a lordship to the man who brings her your head, no matter how humble his birth."

It was no more than Tyrion had expected. "If you mean to take her up on it, make her spread her legs for you as well. The best part of me for the best part of her, that's a fair trade."

However, he's getting less and less sympathetic (which is not to say less interesting). For ex., he's decided to kill Jaime, a decision that makes a lot of emotional sense but precious little of the other sort; surely Tyrion is aware, if not consciously, that Jaime is less responsible for what happened to Tysha than Tyrion is himself. Also, he honestly considered seeing Myrcella dead just to make a futile gesture against his sister.

The worst, though, is his interaction with the Lysene woman; way to abuse what little power you have, dude.

[Jughead of the Round]

This chapter fits in quite nicely with the Dorne chapters as well. (After Captain of the Guards, before Soiled Knight). Tyrion seems to realize, like Doran, that crowning Myrcella is suicide way before Arianne does. This chapter (if left with AFFC) would have foreshadowed even more that crowning Myrcella would only lead to her and Dorne's destruction. I'm excited even more for ADWD with this chapter, and also for the eventual reading of AFFC/ADWD in chronological order.

Tyrion's at a real crossroads in his life: the Wall, Dorne, suicide (he puts those mushrooms in his pocket), or Dany. Tyrion's going to have a much darker outlook on life from now on it seems. It's only a matter of time before he sets his eyes on the dragons.

[Seventh Pup]

I WANT THAT BOOK!

[Star-Spangled Jesus]

However, he's getting less and less sympathetic (which is not to say less interesting). For ex., he's decided to kill Jaime, a decision that makes a lot of emotional sense but precious little of the other sort; surely Tyrion is aware, if not consciously, that Jaime is less responsible for what happened to Tysha than Tyrion is himself. Also, he honestly considered seeing Myrcella dead just to make a futile gesture against his sister.

The worst, though, is his interaction with the Lysene woman; way to abuse what little power you have, dude.

O, I'm feeling rather more sympathetic for Tyrion than ever before. And given how depressed and miserable he is, I can't really say that I'll consider many of the things he thinks or says as proof of a change in his character. Right now, he's like a miniature Sandor Clegane sans the ability to cut people in half. And can't see him remaining spite-blinded forever.

[MaesterLuwin]

The boy on the boat who fails to respond to Tyrion's conversation is interesting. One of Varys' little 'birds' without tongues, as hinted to us in GoT?

The Tyrion-Illyrio plotline has potential to be the most interesting out of all of them in ADwD.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

And given how depressed and miserable he is, I can't really say that I'll consider many of the things he thinks or says as proof of a change in his character.

What an odd thing to say. Presumably the depression and misery should count as a change in his character, right? And it's not like we're talking about a passing funk either; Tyrion spent all of ASoS having whatever comforting illusions he was retaining methodically stripped away from him one by one, and thanks to that he's been depressed and miserable for quite some time. And given how the causes of his depression and misery strike at the longstanding issues in his life (his relationship with Tywin, the marriage with Tysha, his faith in his brother), it's hard to see them going away any time soon.

Obv. his character should still grow and change from here--admittedly in an even darker direction if GRRM's comments can be believed--but this is who Tyrion is right now: bitter, spiteful, abusive, and self-centered. I'm still pulling for the guy, but right now he's just not likable.

[Mauvka]

Illyrio "a drunken dwarf"

Tyrion "a rotting sea cow"

Even a depressed Tyrion still has an edge.

It seems like some one is manipulating Tyrion, hedging him in so that there is no alternative for him except to go to Dany.

[Star-Spangled Jesus]

What an odd thing to say. Presumably the depression and misery should count as a change in his character, right? And it's not like we're talking about a passing funk either; Tyrion spent all of ASoS having whatever comforting illusions he was retaining methodically stripped away from him one by one, and thanks to that he's been depressed and miserable for quite some time. And given how the causes of his depression and misery strike at the longstanding issues in his life (his relationship with Tywin, the marriage with Tysha, his faith in his brother), it's hard to see them going away any time soon.

Obv. his character should still grow and change from here--admittedly in an even darker direction if GRRM's comments can be believed--but this is who Tyrion is right now: bitter, spiteful, abusive, and self-centered. I'm still pulling for the guy, but right now he's just not likable.

Mm, that he has a darker outlook in general is undeniable, but to say that he truly means and is intent on carrying out all the things he thinks is a stretch. For one, the self-destructive depression he feels at the moment is indeed likely to be passing, even if the darker outlook that accompanies it will not. Right now, he's pretty much consumed by misery, because he has had nothing to do but wallow in filth for a long while (literally, even!) and shows it by letting his bitterness, abusiveness, self-centeredness, and spitefulness rage fully out of control. As such, he is fixated on petty and base concerns: drowning his sorrow in wine, getting cheap thrills out of scaring Illyrio's servants, fantasizing about murdering the people who have wronged him, etc. I can't see these lasting long in their full force once he is occupied with helping Dany win her throne. He's still reeling from the blows he'd been dealt in aSoS, but is bound to recover somewhat with the passage of a little time (unless he goes the route of Lysa Tully Arryn, in which case my head will explode).

[Diva]

However, he's getting less and less sympathetic (which is not to say less interesting). For ex., he's decided to kill Jaime, a decision that makes a lot of emotional sense but precious little of the other sort; surely Tyrion is aware, if not consciously, that Jaime is less responsible for what happened to Tysha than Tyrion is himself.

perhaps he feels that if it wasn't for Jaime's interference, he would have never met Tysha in the first place? Therefore everything that followed is Jaime's fault.

[Redtusk]

Oh dear. What happens if Tyrion becomes the central bad guy of the series, a Tywin writ small? Would lend some extra depth to Jamie's conversion to "good".

And perhaps Tyrion could also be one of Dany's betrayals? This chapter gives us a lot to chew on.

[Ahimsa]

Oh dear. What happens if Tyrion becomes the central bad guy of the series, a Tywin writ small?

I hope not. If Martin ends with Jaime as the noble golden Knight and Tyrion as the twisted little monkey demon it will be majorly dissapointing.

[Mauvka]

Love the chapter!

Tyrion in AGoT

I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I'd imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister.

I see Tyrion's present bitterness as another reflection of his conflict with his family. Now, the pain is worse, so Jaime and Myrcella are included as well in the litany of hate. Tyrion is lashing out at the world, but his desire to see Cersei's and Jaime's heads on spikes not to be taken literally.

I agree with the posters who said that this outlook is very temporary and will be replaced by a the worthier goal of putting Dany on the throne.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

SSJ:

In one case, at least, it's clearly not just an idle fantasy: Tyrion has already committed himself to the ol' Kill Jaime & Cersei program. He did kill Tywin, after all, which is one fairly irrevocable step down that path. Pledging himself to Dany will be another. And while he's not likely to see this particular Lysene woman again, it's hard to see him letting go of the instinct to inspire fear in others; he's been modelling his behavior after Tywin for a long time--since the end of ACoK, as I recall--and that's only going to get worse now that his attempts to get people to love him have more or less failed entirely.

E:

Tyrion is lashing out at the world, but his desire to see Cersei's and Jaime's heads on spikes not to be taken literally.

I agree with the posters who said that this outlook is very temporary and will be replaced by a the worthier goal of putting Dany on the throne.

That's silly. The latter requires the former.

[Altherion]

He seems pretty depressed, but I'm sure the dragons will cheer him up. He's dreamed of them since childhood and probably read every book on them in Westeros, I'm sure once he sees them he'll be considerably happier.

[The Lord Dragon]

SSJ:

In one case, at least, it's clearly not just an idle fantasy: Tyrion has already committed himself to the ol' Kill Jaime & Cersei program. He did kill Tywin, after all, which is one fairly irrevocable step down that path. Pledging himself to Dany will be another. And while he's not likely to see this particular Lysene woman again, it's hard to see him letting go of the instinct to inspire fear in others; he's been modelling his behavior after Tywin for a long time--since the end of ACoK, as I recall--and that's only going to get worse now that his attempts to get people to love him have more or less failed entirely.

Sorry, but I have to disagree somewhat. I too see Tyrion's dark mood and simplistic, murderous thoughts as mostly a temporary passing situation. I doubt that he will ever be the same again, yet a Tyrion who is thinking clearly would not need Illyrio to point out that crowning Myrcella would be the same as killing her. That shows that his thoughts are not to be trusted.

When he comes out of his funk he will be more cunning. I fully expect him to have Cersei killed at some point, but I absolutely do not believe that he will kill Jaime. He has hurt Jaime by telling him that he killed Joff. You can tell that part of him regrets that. He will not kill Jaime.

Tyrion may get an obscene pleasure in helping Dany to destroy Cersei, but he may also find that Dany could be the type of noble, just ruler that he hoped that he could be. Tyrion may find satisfaction in mentoring Dany into the type of person and ruler that right now in his depressed state, he doesn't see as possible. Dany wants to be a truly just and good ruler. Tyrion is the same way, but he is brilliant enough to carry it out. He learned the one lesson that he had to learn. Trust no one, least of all your family. Dany's life may depend on her learning the same lesson.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I doubt that he will ever be the same again, yet a Tyrion who is thinking clearly would not need Illyrio to point out that crowning Myrcella would be the same as killing her. That shows that his thoughts are not to be trusted.

He didn't need Illyrio to point that out, though. If you'll read the chapter again:

Tyrion looked at the fat man with new interest. He is right on both counts. To queen her is to kill her. And I knew that.

That is, he was fully assuming that he would probably die, and Myrcella along with him.

Altherion:

He seems pretty depressed, but I'm sure the dragons will cheer him up. He's dreamed of them since childhood and probably read every book on them in Westeros, I'm sure once he sees them he'll be considerably happier.

To be a little more clear, Tyrion dreamed of dragons so he could overpower and kill his enemies. It may be that seeing them makes him "considerably happier," but this would not necessarily speak well of him.