TV SPOILERS - Qhorin halfhand and Ygritte

[highsis]

Season 2 episode 6 spoiler

Why does Qhorin halfhand leave Ygritte and Jon beind instead of waiting for Jon to execute Ygritte? Were there any reasons he should leave ahead? I felt the scene was very contrived as there were no reason for them to leave Jon and Ygritte behind and risk getting seperated.

[Gannicus]

This was one of the TV shows biggest failures in my opinion.

The TV show doesn't reveal it, but In the book Jon let's Ygritte go and Qhorin says something like it doesn't matter I just wanted to see what type of man you were. The scouting party was spotted but not due to Jon and Ygritte. I assume the same thing applies here, Qhorin didn't in the end care too much about Jon killing Ygritte. But he behaves like he's angry so Jon can do what must be done and "make up" for his mistake.

But the whole thing with Jon getting lost was weird. In the book they are spotted and pursued but all the other rangers go out like legends. It was one of the more badass moments in the entire beyond the wall story.

[Gendels Children]

man all that stuff makes so much more sense in the books, the show really gets sloppy with Jons story, especially were it involved Qhorin. it was all far too rushed, far to weak and made Jon out to look like some bumbling fool who screws up at every turn... grrr

[KSims1868]

Yes it was awkward. In the book it was done VERY well as a test of what kind of man Jon is and it made much more sense. I feel like a LOT of the HBO series (while I do love it) only makes sense to those that have read the books. We can fill in the gaps in our head based on what we know from the books while the TV-only (unsullied...love that term for them) fans are putting it together in a weird way sometimes I think.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Yes it was awkward. In the book it was done VERY well as a test of what kind of man Jon is and it made much more sense. I feel like a LOT of the HBO series (while I do love it) only makes sense to those that have read the books. We can fill in the gaps in our head based on what we know from the books while the TV-only (unsullied...love that term for them) fans are putting it together in a weird way sometimes I think.

I have to agree with this wholeheartedly. This applies to much of the characters in the series. Non book-fans whom I have spoken to do not appreciate the significance of events preceeding GoT either for example, such as the Rebellion and have no idea who Daenerys and co are referring to when they are talking of past events and characters such as Rhaegar and Aerys for example.

I feel it is a huge mistake on the part of HBO as these plotlines which do not appear to be explored in any depth may prove crucial to the finale, and so the significance of those events may actually be lost on the non-book fans, when viewers discover Jon's parentage, or that he or Dany is Azor Ahai for example.

[Blutrabe]

Well, I think Season 2 made some grave mistakes and this one of them.

Fortunately S3 had no such kind of shortcomings.

[The Mountain That Posts]

Honestly, if there's ONE plotline which the show has fucked beyond redemption, is anything and EVERYTHING Jon Snow / Samwell Tarly related.

Seasons two and three make a fuckton of mistakes and bad moves, but at least they're all at least SOMEWHAT forgiveable. Every single thing they've done with Jon Snow and Samwell in seasons two/three? Ugh.

Especially the Craster's Keep scene in s3. 4 minutes? WHAT? I was expecting, you know, a twenty minute scene with loads of buildup. But nope, not as important as filler Robb Stark plots and tits!

[KleZ]

Especially the Craster's Keep scene in s3. 4 minutes? WHAT? I was expecting, you know, a twenty minute scene with loads of buildup. But nope, not as important as filler Robb Stark plots and tits!

Yea, the Craster scene changed a lot.. but the problem started l think with the background of Sam at Black Castle and with the others appearing and leaving him behind. The insurgence that was about to happen and didn´t explains better why Craster was killed off, and why that dude that was suppose to be dead, cant remember his name lol, hated Sam.

[ebevan91]

I think Jon's stuff has gotten better over the past 4 episodes.

Sam? Meh...

[Stenjen Bark]

I agree 100% that they didn't do the Qhorin Halfhand thing right at all, but I think everything else has been okay.

Four minutes for the Craster's Keep scene is perfectly acceptable - that's actually a lot considering other things/people that have had minimal screen time. The Robb war plotting 'filler' is essentially the main narrative drive of the story at this point so it's always going to get time on screen (if anything, I actually think they didn't do enough of it, his 'war' seemed to be going nowhere in the TV show for a lot longer than it did in the book).

I think it's fair as well that Jon was a bit dumb/lost in the TV show up to now because I think that's what he was like in the books too. It's only now when he leaves the wildlings that he really grows as a person.

That said, the two times I've been most disappointed with the TV show have both been with Jon - the Halfhand stuff and his explanation to Mance about why he deserted. It's probably the storyline they've got 'least right' even though I don't think they've done it too badly.

[Dragonstoned]

They need to show Jon handling shit during

the Battle of Castle Black and in the defence of the Wall

cos right now he looks like a fucking chump and him

becoming Lord Commander

is going to make no sense.

[Hiram McDrogon]

That said, the two times I've been most disappointed with the TV show have both been with Jon - the Halfhand stuff and his explanation to Mance about why he deserted. It's probably the storyline they've got 'least right' even though I don't think they've done it too badly.

This is what worries me most about Season 4. The Wall stuff next year should be great, but so far that section of the material has been kind of disappointing. The only character I've particularly liked was the Old Bear, and he's gone, although I'm looking forward to Davos and Stannis appearing.

[Darryk]

He wants Jon to infiltrate the wildlings so it actually suits him to have Jon let Ygritte go (helps gain her trust).

But he tells Jon it's because he wanted to see what kind of man he was. "To lead men you must know them, Jon Snow", or something to that effect.

[ugashep]

Season 2 episode 6 spoiler

Why does Qhorin halfhand leave Ygritte and Jon beind instead of waiting for Jon to execute Ygritte? Were there any reasons he should leave ahead? I felt the scene was very contrived as there were no reason for them to leave Jon and Ygritte behind and risk getting seperated.

Because Ygritte is the Halfhand's bastard with Ashara Dayne, it is known.

[victim]

A combination of Iceland being a terrible, albeit beautiful, place to film (did you notice how much better JonShow got the second he got on Irish soil?) and the producers thinking Ygritte is more vital than Qhorin. No matter which way you cut it though, they lost one of the better Jon chapters in the entire series for a little R. Kelly bump n' grind in the snow. I've been a Jon defender throughout, always coming up with an excuse here or some reasoning there, but I'll never forget the Season 2 missteps in his storyline.

[Ahri Adaran]

Yeah Season 2 Jon was farcical. I enjoy the show very much overall, but that's really the show's low point. Luckily Jon has started to improve a bit, but it might be too late for a lot of the unsullied...

And then to make matters worse Mance Rayder is probably the most badly cast person in the entire show. The northern plot lines just can't seem to catch a break :(

And yeah, it was annoying that things seem to have been changed to build up Ygritte and make her a more important character which both butchered Jon and Qhorin and was really unnecessary since Ygritte has an excellent actress who doesn't need help from the writers putting more focus on her than was the case in the books to make her character interesting.

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

I could forgive all the season 2 stuff with Jon/Ygritte/Halfhand, but I shuddered when I watched Jon and Ygritte in S03E10. He was so weak. "I have to go home now" has finally dethroned "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS" as the weakest line in the series.

That being said, Jon is fabulous in the books, and I'll forgive it all if he becomes more of a badass when the Wildlings attack Castle Black. As long as it all contributes to the "kill the boy and let the man be born" theme.