[Book Spoilers] Sansa and Tyrion

[Minsc]

I have stated in other places that I'm fairly certain Podrick Payne:Sex God is an attempt to make him chasing after Tyrion more believable. They wanted to build that relationship that they have more. That's how I get past it anyway. Dunno how true it is.

Good to know that the motives of random side characters are needing better exploration then POV characters like Sansa and Catelyn or the portray of the moral complexity of Tyrion.

[Zman1863]

Come on, A lot of Tyrion's morally objectionable acts would be easy to film and won't take much time at all. Like breaking Marillion's fingers. Or even easier - adding a mention that he took part in Tysha's rape. Etc.

That's definitely true of the Tysha story and of Marillion's fingers (although the efficacy of that one in giving an accurate view of Tyrion's dark side is dubious IMO). But the other big instance of Tyrion's morally objectionable acts, the Tommen side plot in ACOK, was likely cut in order to simplify the plot. That whole series of events couldn't be conveyed without a lot more dialogue and time.

[Mulled Wino]

But that didn't even happen in the books. Sansa acknowledged that Tyrion wasn't bad to her when questioned by Lysa in the Eryie.

2 things: at this poibt in the story, thats pretty much how she was.

also, the post that was responding to suggested a storyline that was much further away from what happened in the books.

[wolverine]

I think what you guys are calling 'whitewashing' is really just a matter of not being able to fit everything into the show. They don't need to make us 'like him more' because Tyrion is also quite likeable in the books... at least the first 3!

What? They have added lots of scenes of him being a better guy. IMO he is far more likeable on the show. I couldn't stand him in the books, on the show, I don't know how you could dislike him.

i thought it was a great scene with little difference to the book. i know tyrion's detractors were desperate for this scene to be a "whitewash" but it was not at all.

Umm...in the books he was fondling her naked breasts hard as a rock with her trembling in horror before he realizes it is too awkward (IIRC). He doesn't stop her before she is even undressed. Some of his phrasing in the bedroom may have been a little bit cruder but he was not coarse with her.

I still thought the scene was very good on the show, but IMO Tyrion's "whitewashing" has continued.

[Cas Stark]

I thought they did a good job with the wedding scenes, but to say the bedroom wasn't whitewashed is ridiculous.

In the books she takes ALL of her clothes off, he takes ALL of his clothes off, they both get on the bed, its only at the last minute that he changes his mind.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

The "one heart, one flesh, one soul, now and forever" sounded rather definite. I wonder if one possible reason for the softening of the marriage is that it may not be quite over yet.

I've been thinking the whole way Sansa-Tyrion has been portrayed in the series means that this will be the end game for the two. They may not (ok, probably won't) be a love match but this marriage appears to be permanant.

[King Tyrion I]

I thought the whole wedding was great. Both Peter Dinklage and Sophie Turner did a great job, they really made the wedding as awkward as I imagined it was in the books.

I like what they're doing with Tyrion. They're showing viewers that even he has flaws, even he has a dark side, but they're not taking it too far. I liked how he was kind and respectufl to Sansa. Like the poster above me said, Tyrion is the leading " good guy " right now.

:agree:

My thoughts exactly.

[wolverine]

I thought they did a good job with the wedding scenes, but to say the bedroom wasn't whitewashed is ridiculous.

In the books she takes ALL of her clothes off, he takes ALL of his clothes off, they both get on the bed, its only at the last minute that he changes his mind.

With a raging boner and hand on her 12 year old breast.

[Minsc]

I've been thinking the whole way Sansa-Tyrion has been portrayed in the series means that this will be the end game for the two. They may not (ok, probably won't) be a love match but this marriage appears to be permanant.

I really hope not, as I rather not Sansa be punished by being forced to be stuck in an unhappy marriage with Tyrion. Moreover, if GRRM attempts to make it "happy" then both that and the take on the Dany/Drogo marriage will make me uncomfortable about how he portrays forced marriages.

[wolverine]

Went back to read the book scene and now I only have Dinklage in my head for Tyrion, when he really looks very little like him. It is weird hearing about his waddle, twisted form, massive scar, and miscolored eyes when my mind says Tyrion looks like Dinklage.

Now I suppose show Tyrion will mess with my head and make me like book Tyrion too.

[Minsc]

Now I suppose show Tyrion will mess with my head and make me like book Tyrion too.

Funny, Show:Tyrion makes me actually dislike Book:Tyrion more.

[wolverine]

Funny, Show:Tyrion makes me actually dislike Book:Tyrion more.

Like the portrayal pisses you off and that is why or because book Tyrion looks even more like an ass due to show Tyrion being such a shining knight?

EDIT: How many people actually think Tyrion will murder Shae on the show? And if your answer is yes, how much more egregious will her crimes be and will he strangle her?

[Cas Stark]

Like the portrayal pisses you off and that is why or because book Tyrion looks even more like an ass due to show Tyrion being such a shining knight?

EDIT: How many people actually think Tyrion will murder Shae on the show? And if your answer is yes, how much more egregious will her crimes be and will he strangle her?

I say no, his father will strangle Shae. I can't imagine what they could have her do that would really be bad enough for Tyrion Dinklage to be justified in murdering the hooker with the heart of gold who just wants to go to Essos with him and leave the game of thrones and bad people behind.

[Minsc]

Like the portrayal pisses you off and that is why or because book Tyrion looks even more like an ass due to show Tyrion being such a shining knight?

Generally, the former through the latter might slip in also.

Quite frankly, I now fear that Ser Pounce might be right and Sansa might be stuck as only being a reward for Tyrion at the end of the books.

[Cybvep]

Or even easier - adding a mention that he took part in Tysha's rape. Etc.

I've been wondering whether they will mention that in season 4. For example, during the Tywin-Tyrion confrontation, in order to make it even more dramatic. When you think about it, it's easy to come up with a reason why Tyrion wouldn't want to mention that part of Tysha's story...

I agree that Tyrion is a better person in the show, but IMO he was also a very likeable character in the book. The mere fact that he is witty, funny and hilarious makes him very popular. He is one of the fan favourites, after all... Anyway, I think that the writers want Tyrion to cross the moral event horizon during his escape. IMO that this moment may be a nasty shocker for many viewers and may polarize the audience.

[1234567]

EDIT: How many people actually think Tyrion will murder Shae on the show? And if your answer is yes, how much more egregious will her crimes be and will he strangle her?

I thought they were going to make Shae into Fatal Attraction, but it now seems unlikely.

Also they are going to have to spark a break in Tyrion and Shae's relationship soon as the next two episodes are RW and fallout and them perhaps a maximum of 4 episodes until Joff's Wedding.

They could go for the tragic and show Shae being forced to testify, but Tyrion not knowing that and killing her thinking she's betrayed him, but that just seems too dark, even for BookTyrion.

[Minsc]

I agree that Tyrion is a better person in the show, but IMO he was also a very likeable character in the book. The mere fact that he is witty, funny and hilarious makes him very popular. He is one of the fan favourites, after all... Anyway, I think that the writers want Tyrion to cross the moral event horizon during his escape. I think that this moment will be a nasty shocker for many viewers.

That is an argument of why they shouldn't be removing his dark scenes, in how that isn't need to make him likable, sympathetic, or interesting. In contrast, they might be justified in toning down Cersei's darkness in how she has no actual positives that make her likable and sympathetic thus their efforts actually make her a richer character.

[Minsc]

Also they are going to have to spark a break in Tyrion and Shae's relationship soon as the next two episodes are RW and fallout and them perhaps a maximum of 4 episodes until Joff's Wedding.

Random aside, but with the PW so far off I still wonder how they are going to work Jaime's storyline as how are they going to ignore him for like 6 episodes and cannot take longer then that for him to get to King's Landing.

And it would make Jaime look like a douche if he just abandons his mission from Catelyn when he has the opportunity to rescue Sansa if he gets there before she escapes.

[Cybvep]

That is an argument of why they shouldn't be removing his dark scenes, in how that isn't need to make him likable, sympathetic, or interesting. In contrast, they might be justified in toning down Cersei's darkness in how she has no actual positives that make her likable and sympathetic thus their efforts actually make her a richer character.

I think that book Tyrion would be even more interesting on screen, yes. However, since I enjoy Tyrion's scenes and PD's acting in the show, I don't complain about Tyrion's whitewashing that much. I like show Tyrion, but I like book Tyrion even more, because he is more complex :).

Oh, and BTW, I think that show Cersei is MUCH more interesting than book Cersei. In the books, she resembles a Disney villain. In the show, she is more nuanced. The vast majority of the viewers still hate her, so no problem in that department...

[bbstark]

Like the portrayal pisses you off and that is why or because book Tyrion looks even more like an ass due to show Tyrion being such a shining knight?

EDIT: How many people actually think Tyrion will murder Shae on the show? And if your answer is yes, how much more egregious will her crimes be and will he strangle her?

exactly! Show Tyrion makes you see what Tyrion could have been!

the way they have described him so far, he'll probably *accidentally* trip over the chain he gave her, which will strangle her to death because Tywin put it on to tight, *whoups*