I think Dany will be dead by the end of the story

[Morienthar]

She will die in westeros not outside it,she might even get to sit on the IT for a few days.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

Dany will be important in the final outcome of the series, I have no doubt, but GRRM has hammered away at how special and important she is so hard since the end of Book 1 that its hard not to think he's playing with our expectations somehow.

Exactly, since book one Dany has been presented as pretty much (Barring maybe snow) the one character who cant die because shes too important, (has anyone ever actually feared for Dany's life while reading?) Martin has been borderline cliche with DAny the Messiah, I will be utterly shocked if the train doesent go off the tracks in Danys story if she doesent end up dead earlier then expected or playing the role of the antagonist.

GRRM didnt just write in a completely safe character in a story where anyone else seems to be able to die if he didnt intend to play with our heartstrings somehow.

[Nictarion]

Exactly, since book one Dany has been presented as pretty much (Barring maybe snow) the one character who cant die because shes too important, (has anyone ever actually feared for Dany's life while reading?) Martin has been borderline cliche with DAny the Messiah, I will be utterly shocked if the train doesent go off the tracks in Danys story if she doesent end up dead earlier then expected or playing the role of the antagonist.

GRRM didnt just write in a completely safe character in a story where anyone else seems to be able to die if he didnt intend to play with our heartstrings somehow.

The same can be said for Jon. The fact that 99.9% of readers don't believe for one second Jon is deaed or will stay dead. The same goes for Tyrion as well.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

The same can be said for Jon. The fact that 99.9% of readers don't believe for one second Jon is deaed or will stay dead. The same goes for Tyrion as well.

I can agree with Jon... but Tyrion? Tyrion strikes me as rather unimportant atm, I mean if he dies its not unraveling a story line, hes about to reach a place that already has a bunch of PoVs... Tyrions death would not surprise me at all going forward. But I see your point about Jon.

(I dont overly like Jon or Tyrion either btw, but for different reasons)

But just think how anti climactic the books would be if Dany did end up saving the day and sitting on the throne... it would be a very cliche messiah type story... I just cant image George doing that

[Nictarion]

I can agree with Jon... but Tyrion? Tyrion strikes me as rather unimportant atm, I mean if he dies its not unraveling a story line, hes about to reach a place that already has a bunch of PoVs... Tyrions death would not surprise me at all going forward. But I see your point about Jon.

(I dont overly like Jon or Tyrion either btw, but for different reasons)

But just think how anti climactic the books would be if Dany did end up saving the day and sitting on the throne... it would be a very cliche messiah type story... I just cant image George doing that

I think it would be much more cliché if a clean cut stereotypical god guy has to slay the dragons and defeat the "evil queen". :ack: I would find it much more interesting to see dragons used for a force of good, something I personally have never seen in fantasy. Also I just don't see how Dany would be a cliché hero, how many fantasy stories have teenage girls as one of or even the hero of the story? I personally have never read that story.

[teemo]

Dany has been so very much a straight-forward vision of 'the Chosen One' that it would actually be really refreshing if it turns out she isn't and either dies or becomes an increasingly antagonistic force.

I feel the same. I don't have any kind of proof, obviously, but I've always had this suspicion that she's going to end up more of an antagonist than she's ever been considered before. It would definitely be interesting.

[Direwolf of the Starks]

I will admit something that something about her just rubs me the wrong way

[TheMysteriousOne]

I will admit something that something about her just rubs me the wrong way

There's nothing wrong with disliking Daenerys, many people here don't, me excluded. It's just that you basically said that her only purpose was to bring back the dragons, which diminishes the importance and role of her character. Despite your feelings about her, it should be easily recognizable that she has a major part to play, whether or not she's going to be a protagonist or antagonist will be determined in the following books, though I hope that she'll be a protagonist.

[LordStoneheart]

thats not a certainty, GRRM has harped on targ madness every single book, with her being likely the only real targ left I dont think its a coincidence

Okay, maybe not period... But I do find it very unlikely seeing as Joffrey showed his Madness quite early and he had a Prince's dream life (generalizing) but nothing mentioned that would explain his psychosis. I think it would be more evident if Daenerys inherited the Madness like it was with others. Aerys and Viserys had tempers easily broken when much younger. No one mentions it for Rhaegar and Daenerys is likened to him.

[mrunderhill]

I think it would be much more cliché if a clean cut stereotypical god guy has to slay the dragons and defeat the "evil queen". :ack: I would find it much more interesting to see dragons used for a force of good, something I personally have never seen in fantasy. Also I just don't see how Dany would be a cliché hero, how many fantasy stories have teenage girls as one of or even the hero of the story? I personally have never read that story.

I think dragons being used for good is common in fantasy. Isn't the Eragorn story based on it? I think Dany is the classical story of the child with good intentions, but ends up turning into the villain. I think she will be Azor Ahai, but in the end will cause more trouble when she arrives in Westeros.

[Nictarion]

Okay, maybe not period... But I do find it very unlikely seeing as Joffrey showed his Madness quite early and he had a Prince's dream life (generalizing) but nothing mentioned that would explain his psychosis. I think it would be more evident if Daenerys inherited the Madness like it was with others. Aerys and Viserys had tempers easily broken when much younger. No one mentions it for Rhaegar and Daenerys is likened to him.

I agree. And Barristan is in the absolute best person to make that judgment. He served und Aerys all his life, and we even have POV from Barristan, and he never questions if Dany is or will go mad.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

Okay, maybe not period... But I do find it very unlikely seeing as Joffrey showed his Madness quite early and he had a Prince's dream life (generalizing) but nothing mentioned that would explain his psychosis. I think it would be more evident if Daenerys inherited the Madness like it was with others. Aerys and Viserys had tempers easily broken when much younger. No one mentions it for Rhaegar and Daenerys is likened to him.

Rhaegar started a civil war because he thought he was part of a prophecy...

[Nictarion]

I think dragons being used for good is common in fantasy. Isn't the Eragorn story based on it? I think Dany is the classical story of the child with good intentions, but ends up turning into the villain. I think she will be Azor Ahai, but in the end will cause more trouble when she arrives in Westeros.

I am not familiar with that story, even if that's true, that's one compared to thousands of other stories that are always the hero slays the dragon.

[Aryatheassassin]

Or Dany getting bogged down in Meereen(which got very annoying), ending up out in the middle of nowhere with Drogo, and found by Khal Jhaqo could be the beginning of her end. I actually doubt that, and at this point I have to believe that she will at least reach Westeros, but my expectations for her have diminished steadily. That said, I think she is quite sane.

I do have one question...I am new here, and someone on this thread questioned another's statement that Dany was the last Targaryen, asking about Jon only. In another thread, I saw someone say "Aegon is most certainly a fake". Is that the consensus here? That Young griff is not really prince Aegon? Very sorry if I'm derailing.

[Nictarion]

Rhaegar started a civil war because he thought he was part of a prophecy...

We do not know that, he could have also inadvertently started said war because he fell in love with a woman that was betrothed.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Most of the Targaryen 'madness' comes from the huge sense of entitlement they grew to possess and the huge amount of power they had, when you're surrounded by all that, you're likely going to feel like you're special and important and start doing things that aren't very sensible.

[TheMysteriousOne]

I saw someone say "Aegon is most certainly a fake". Is that the consensus here? That Young griff is not really prince Aegon? ]

Pretty much

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree. And Barristan is in the absolute best person to make that judgment. He served und Aerys all his life, and we even have POV from Barristan, and he never questions if Dany is or will go mad.

I know it's considered heresy to question the Bold One, but I must point out that despite supposedly seeing the "taint" in Viserys, knowing how Viserys actually turned out with the benefit of hindsight, Barristan apparently completely overlooked arguably stronger sociopathic tendencies in Joffrey. He left Joffrey's service because he was dismissed, and only then. It's not like he left because he realized Joffrey was a lunatic; he was sacked. If I'd hitched my entire fortune to Dany, I'd want to believe the best about her too.

Most of the Targaryen 'madness' comes from the huge sense of entitlement they grew to possess and the huge amount of power they had, when you're surrounded by all that, you're likely going to feel like you're special and important and start doing things that aren't very sensible.

And you don't think Dany has this very same growing sense of entitlement, with power and no one to tell her "no" if she doesn't want to hear it?

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

We do not know that, he could have also inadvertently started said war because he fell in love with a woman that was betrothed.

Rhaegar thought he was the prince that was promised... I'm pretty sure that was established in the books, I need to check.

[mrunderhill]

I am not familiar with that story, even if that's true, that's one compared to thousands of other stories that are always the hero slays the dragon.

I saw a film about it once, the film looked a mess, but the dragons were being used for good. Dragonquest is another. There are quite a few out there. That being said I think the story demands for two things

1) The Targaryens come back and rule

2) Somebody slays the dragons and Westeros puts another creature above the dragons.