Morienthar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I agree. And Barristan is in the absolute best person to make that judgment. He served und Aerys all his life, and we even have POV from Barristan, and he never questions if Dany is or will go mad.Barristan is on a oath redemption arc and is blind to anything but putting the "Rightful" queen on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I know it's considered heresy to question the Bold One, but I must point out that despite supposedly seeing the "taint" in Viserys, knowing how Viserys actually turned out with the benefit of hindsight, Barristan apparently completely overlooked arguably stronger sociopath ethic tendencies in Joffrey. He left Joffrey's service because he was dismissed, and only then. It's not like he left because he realized Joffrey was a lunatic; he was sacked. If I'd hitches my entire fortune to Dany, I'd want to believe the best about her too.But considering we have POV from him, there would be no reason to hide any doubt or speculation from her from himself in his own thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Rhaegar thought he was the prince that was promised... I'm pretty sure that was established in the books, I need to check.He actually believed it was Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 But considering we have POV from him, there would be no reason to hide any doubt or speculation from her from himself in his own thoughts.There is if he's in denial. Look at Connington. These people are not omniscient and have their own flaws and biases in their POVs, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I saw a film about it once, the film looked a mess, but the dragons were being used for good. Dragonquest is another. There are quite a few out there. That being said I think the story demands for two things1) The Targaryens come back and rule2) Somebody slays the dragons and Westeros puts another creature above the dragons.What do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 He actually believed it was Aegon.And originally he thought it was himself. You're both right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I know it's considered heresy to question the Bold One, but I must point out that despite supposedly seeing the "taint" in Viserys, knowing how Viserys actually turned out with the benefit of hindsight, Barristan apparently completely overlooked arguably stronger sociopath ethic tendencies in Joffrey. He left Joffrey's service because he was dismissed, and only then. It's not like he left because he realized Joffrey was a lunatic; he was sacked. If I'd hitched my entire fortune to Dany, I'd want to believe the best about her too.I have little respect for Barristan the Bold. He cares more about his "honour" and position than anything else. He served Aerys despite him being mad and then betrayed him and served Robert. The taint around Viserys seems like just an excuse. He was an 8 year old boy, maybe if the "honourable" Barristan had taken him under his wing he would have escaped the taint. Then he serves a psychopath in Joffrey until he is dismissed. Then instead of accepting his discharge he turns traitor once more. He blinds himself to the truth so he can serve honourably as one of the kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There is if he's in denial. Look at Connington. These people are not omniscient and have their own flaws and biases in their POVs, too.Well the jury is still out on Jon Con, we don't know all the circumstances as to why he believes Aegon to be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What do you mean by this?Robert did it,Killed all the dragons and the stags were put above them,If the statement wasn't a metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What if Dany's whole role is really to "Wake the Dragon"? Maybe she is a hero... but the hero the wakes the dragon from stone. She dies in the process and TPtWP comes onto the scene thanks to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I have little respect for Barristan the Bold. He cares more about his "honour" and position than anything else. He served Aerys despite him being mad and then betrayed him and served Robert. The taint around Viserys seems like just an excuse. He was an 8 year old boy, maybe if the "honourable" Barristan had taken him under his wing he would have escaped the taint. Then he serves a psychopath in Joffrey until he is dismissed. Then instead of accepting his discharge he turns traitor once more. He blinds himself to the truth so he can serve honourably as one of the kingsguard.So did Arthur Dayne, and he is pretty universally loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Well the jury is still out on Jon Con, we don't know all the circumstances as to why he believes Aegon to be real.Probably in large part because he wants to believe it. Just like Barristan no doubt wants to believe that Dany would be a good queen and he's not throwing his life away in an Essosi shit hole for another Targaryen Darwin Award winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So did Arthur Dayne, and he is pretty universally loved.Arthur Dayne also died at his post rather than submit to Robert to save his own skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What do you mean by this?Westeros seems to at large fear the Targaryens. The fear of dragons has been put into the people for centuries and somebody needs to break that before the country can move on. Even Robert used Targaryen blood to justify his claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So did Arthur Dayne, and he is pretty universally loved.Arthur Dayne never did surrender and turned traitor to save his own life. Arthur Dayne probably had knowledge of the changes Rhaegar wanted to implement as well. As Dayne said the Kingsguard do not run. If it was not for moral reasons why did Barristan betray the Targaryens? Then he betrays the Baratheons again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Arthur Dayne also died at his post rather than submit to Robert to save his own skin.Barristan did not submit either, he was nearly fatally wounded, and Robert admired his loyalty so much he refused to kill him and had his own maesters tend to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Barristan did not submit either, he was nearly fatally wounded, and Robert admired his loyalty so much he refused to kill him and had his own maesters tend to him.Barristan joined his Kingsguard as The Lord Commander; by definition he submitted to Robert. I know the Barry backstory, thanks. You're not telling me anything new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Daenerys isn't crazy. Yet.Fix'd that for ya. Srsly though i want her to jump on the Cray Train. It would be a lot of fun instead of slogging through hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There is if he's in denial.Or if there's genuinely nothing there. He saw Loraq's weakness clearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Or if there's genuinely nothing there. He saw Loraq's weakness clearly enough.And he saw the Green Grace's not at all. Point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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