Robert was never the rightful King?

[Cersai's Son]

I think I recall an SSM or the like saying that the rebels decided on Robert as the king between the Battle of the Bells and the Trident, because of the Targ association, but I can not find it.

Yes it was before the battle at trident.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

As I always say: might makes right.

[Groat]

During the rebellion the rebels already chose Robert as their leader because he had Targ blood so could make claim to the throne. Whoever the rebels chose was going to be king if they had won. If Robert didn't have Targ blood then someone other lord of the house could have been choosen to lead the rebels

That is not true at all. Jon Arryn started the rebellion when he called his banners after the mad king demanded the heads of Ned and Robert. After that there was an allaince between the Vale, the North, the Stormlands, and the Riverlands, which faught against the IT and later became known as Robert's Rebellion.

Robert was the "leader" because he was betrothed and (claimed to) love Lyanna, but he was far from the only shot caller and player. Cat even mentions how Robert had Ned's caution to temper his decisions, so Ned had to make decisions as well, and most likely argued with Robert about tactical choices.

Ned was still the younger brother frame of mind, and Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully were old men. Robert was the natural warrior leader of the rebellion, fighting for love. It had nothing to do with his distant Targaryen relationship. Show me evidence that the rebel leaders deferred to Robert because of his Targ blood, because I do not believe there is any. After the rebellion, the maester's claimed Robert was the rightful king because of his lineage, but with or with out the targ blood, he would have been named the righful king.

[WhiteOwl18]

I don't think rights of conquest applies here. It was a rebellion and not an invasion. If it was about right of conquest Robert wouldn't be needing to have Targ blood to become king. .

Someone mentioned Henry Tudor (Henry VII) and I think that's a good comparison. Henry Tudor became king by right of conquest, but he banked on the fact that he was descended from Edward III. He knew, however, that there were people with a much better claim than him, which is why he married Elizabeth of York, the daughter of Edward IV, who would be way ahead of him in the line of succession. That way he insured that his descendants' right to the throne would not be put into to question. Right of conquest got him there, but he knew how frail his position was.

Robert got the IT through right of conquest, but if he didn't have Targ blood he wouldn't have as much support as he did. If he was just some random guy with no connections to the Targs, a lot of people would simply not follow him. Both conquest and blood matter here.

[Djinn]

If Robert was never the rightful King, dispite being acclaimed as such by all the Realm, then neither was Aegon I or anyone else for that matter. Starks took the Neck from the Mudds, Andals from First Men, First Men from the CotF, and on and on...

[NedStark2013]

Um if we are going by combat didn't Jaime and Ned More or less secure the thrown from The Mad King. By that alone Jaime or Ned should have been King Conquest wise. Robert may have kille Rhag but he himself was not quite there to thwart The Mad King.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Um if we are going by combat didn't Jaime and Ned More or less secure the thrown from The Mad King. By that alone Jaime or Ned should have been King Conquest wise. Robert may have kille Rhag but he himself was not quite there to thwart The Mad King.

And after Robert's death his rightful heir is the boar, right?

[Morienthar]

He smashed Targ armies with his own,He caved in the chest of the crown prince,he won it by conquest,he couldn't keep it though,He did not leave an heir which makes him sort of a military dictator more than rightful monarch.

[all swedes are racist]

And after Robert's death his rightful heir is the boar, right?

Well, the boar's eldest son, as it was killed and eaten after all

[Cersai's Son]

That is not true at all. Jon Arryn started the rebellion when he called his banners after the mad king demanded the heads of Ned and Robert. After that there was an allaince between the Vale, the North, the Stormlands, and the Riverlands, which faught against the IT and later became known as Robert's Rebellion.

Robert was the "leader" because he was betrothed and (claimed to) love Lyanna, but he was far from the only shot caller and player. Cat even mentions how Robert had Ned's caution to temper his decisions, so Ned had to make decisions as well, and most likely argued with Robert about tactical choices.

Ned was still the younger brother frame of mind, and Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully were old men. Robert was the natural warrior leader of the rebellion, fighting for love. It had nothing to do with his distant Targaryen relationship. Show me evidence that the rebel leaders deferred to Robert because of his Targ blood, because I do not believe there is any. After the rebellion, the maester's claimed Robert was the rightful king because of his lineage, but with or with out the targ blood, he would have been named the righful king.

im pretty sure the rebels decided to make robert their leader before the battle at trident because he had targ blood

[Groat]

im pretty sure the rebels decided to make robert their leader before the battle at trident because he had targ blood

I'm going to ask for evidence, if you can find it I will humbly apologize, but I do not believe this to be the case.

[mrunderhill]

He smashed Targ armies with his own,He caved in the chest of the crown prince,he won it by conquest,he couldn't keep it though,He did not leave an heir which makes him sort of a military dictator more than rightful monarch.

No I don't think that is fair. Military dictators fail because they cannot provide the people a reason to support their children. Whether it be divine right, descended from the gods, or merely tradition for hundreds of years; a king needs to give people the reason to accept his children. Robert DID give people a reason to accept his son. Had Joffrey being legitimate Robert's son would probably ascend the Iron Throne after crushing Renly in the worst case scenario.

[kkae]

Baratheons and Targaryens are usurpers and imposters. Blackfyres are the true kings.

[Morienthar]

im pretty sure the rebels decided to make robert their leader before the battle at trident because he had targ blood

Robert was their war general and leader not because he was 0.005% Targ or something,but because he apparently fought the war for love...and to win back Lyanna and in the process avenge the Starks.

Robert did win the throne by conquest but the only problem as I said before is he couldn't manage to keep it in the family because Cersei did manage to keep it in the family.

No I don't think that is fair. Military dictators fail because they cannot provide the people a reason to support their children. Whether it be divine right, descended from the gods, or merely tradition for hundreds of years; a king needs to give people the reason to accept his children. Robert DID give people a reason to accept his son. Had Joffrey being legitimate Robert's son would probably ascend the Iron Throne after crushing Renly in the worst case scenario.

A bit unfair sure,But a lot of military dictators have left a dynasty behind of their own.

Baratheons and Targaryens are usurpers and imposters. Blackfyres are the true kings.

By this logic the Starks and First Men and before them the Children have more right to rule westeors.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Why is this being discussed again? Robert won the rebellion and everyone willingly or begrudgingly bent the knee to him and accepted him as king. Having a claim on the throne and having people accept said claim are two completely different things. Robert had a claim via a Targ grandparent, but it was his warhammer that gained him the throne and the lords of the seven kingdoms accpeted this after the rebellion, that makes him the rightful king after the rebellion.

[Light a wight tonight]

The Targs' legitimacy as rulers was based on their ability to defeat the opposition and that came from having a posse of dragons. Once the dragons died off they lost their dominance and were eventually swept aside. Dynasties don't last forever. They get replaced.

[Light a wight tonight]

double post, sorry

[Daidalos]

That there could even be such a thing as a "rightful" king is a romantic fancy. Even in the world of the books, this is tacitly acknowledged. It frankly beggars belief that readers and fans of this series--people presumably born and raised in democratic countries--keep insisting on the preposterous, regressive, and discredited myth that certain characters have a right to rule. I think the books have made abundantly clear that none have that right, and all have that right.

Mitbert Strangejoy said it best:

"A person who sits on the Iron Throne and whose subjects call him 'King' is rightfully the King. Full stop."

And at the end of the series, whosoever sits upon the monstrosity that is the Iron Throne and is called 'King' (or 'Queen') can rightfully claim to be such, until the time comes when that person too is overthrown. Hopefully, it won't come that; hopefully the Iron Throne will be melted to slag.

[Robar]

You know what`s interesting? He comes before Dany according to Targaryen laws of succession. So, basically after Viserys` death, he was next in line :)

Actually, no. Robert was descended from Rhaella Targaryen, Aegon V's daughter, who is behind Daenerys in the line of succession. Had Robert had a Targaryen grandfather (as the consort to the Lady of Storm's End), then he would have been the lawful heir (even though the marriage was matrilineal).

[Mladen]

Actually, no. Robert was descended from Rhaella Targaryen, Aegon V's daughter, who is behind Daenerys in the line of succession. Had Robert had a Targaryen grandfather (as the consort to the Lady of Storm's End), then he would have been the lawful heir (even though the marriage was matrilineal).

He is the last male of Targaryen bloodline. Iron Throne can be inherited only by men, which excludes Daenerys, no matter how close she is to the main line.