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LucionLannister

Randyll Tarly and Betrayal?

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So it seems like whenever I read Tyrell or Reach related things on here, A LOT of people seemed convinved that Randyll Tarly is harboring some kind of super hate towards the Tyrells and is going to betray them the first chance he gets, and I just don't understand it. Don't get me wrong, Randyll Tarly is many terrible things, but I've seen no evidence to suggest disloyal is one of those things.

He calls his banners during Robert's Rebellion and takes command of the important vanguard, calls his banners to fight for Renly, and when Renly is killed takes command of Renly's stores for House Tyrell and puts a lot of disloyal men to death (including memebers of his own wife's family), after that he goes with Lord Rowan to find Lord Tywin so the Tyrells can make a deal with him, follows the Tyrells to Kingslanding and the Battle of Blackwater Bay, is given a significant amount of the Reach's forces to take care of things like Maidenpool, and when Queen Margaery is arrested he rushes to Kingslanding with his army to Margaery's aide.

This all seems counterproductive to a hater who wants to see House Tyrell die out or someone who is going to quickly and easily change sides. Or am I just missing something?

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No. But usually one doesn't wear their disloyalty as a badge. It may not be about hate at all, just getting ahead - and waiting for the right time to do so.

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Yeah if anything I see him as one of the most loyal lords in the whole series.Stayed loyal to the IT/Targs/Tyrells in Robert's Rebellion and followed Mace to Renly and then Joffrey.

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It could be pride. Mace Tyrell hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford when it was Tarly who won that battle. Mace also gave Brightwater Keep to his son, Garlan, when Tarly's wife was second in line for Brightwater Keep.

He may also have an admiration for Connington, or even romantic feelings.

ETA: GIven the treatment of his sons, he may prefer a king like Aegon who chooses to lead in his battles over plump Tommen who likes to play with his kittens.

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I guess it all stems from the "friends in the Reach" comment that one of the leaders of the Golden Company makes. Since the comment was worth including in the book, you have to think the friend(s) is someone that the reader is already familiar with and somewhat important, not Landed Knight Bubba of Hogwallow Gulch. Tarly fits that bill. Plus, you have Tarly seems to downplay Aegon's invasion in the ADWD prologue.

On the other hand, I don't think there is anything to suggest he's at all disgruntled with the Tyrells. If he's mad at Mace from stealing his thunder at Ashford or being passed over for Brightwater Keep, he hides it really well.

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I think that something Kevan tells Cersei in AFFC is hinting that Tarly may not love the Tyrells. He states that if she makes Tarly hand that she strengthens herself whilst weakening Highgarden, and that Tarly is above all loyal. I think what he is stating is that Tarly is loyal to those who treat him well. He is loyal to Mace simply because that is the teat he has been suckling for years, yet at the chance of being promoted, I think the person that does the best by him will also win his allegiance.

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Randyll Tarly has an ugly death coming. I can just feel it! It would be pretty awesome if whoever sits the IT at the end disolves the NW and Sam gets take what's his.

SAMWELL FTW!!!

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No. But usually one doesn't wear their disloyalty as a badge. It may not be about hate at all, just getting ahead - and waiting for the right time to do so.

But this doesn't seem to line up. If he was really that indifferent, it seems like he would pull a Walder Frey (Robert's Rebellion) or Barbrey Dustin (War of the Five Kings), and do as little as possible while still remaining technically loyal. He is actively promoting the interests of House Tyrell.

It could be pride. Mace Tyrell hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford when it was Tarly who won that battle. Mace also gave Brightwater Keep to his son, Garlan, when Tarly's wife was second in line for Brightwater Keep.

See, I find some issues with that. First, while yes, Mace likes to take the credit for Ashford, every single POV, from accomplished strategists like Lord Tywin to idiots like Cersei, seem to be very much aware that it was Randyll Tarly who won that battle and Mace is a terrible commander. So I don't think he's too concern about credit.

And as for Brightwater Keep, I can understand Mace giving it to a second son over one of his bannermen. In Westeros it seems like a VERY rare thing for noble families to have two different wealthy castles, let alone for one PERSON to have different seats. The only place it seems to happen regularly is with the ironborn, and the Boltons most recently. Randyll Tarly only has the one son to inherit, and he's already getting Horn Hill. Complaining over not getting a second castle for his son just seems a little petty, when its very rare for high lords/families to have two castles.

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Tarly is probably the most loyal guy in the series, and the Tyrell's have always been his liege lord above all else. It's why he sided with them in Robert's Rebellion, and it's why he will continue to do so.

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It could be pride. Mace Tyrell hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford when it was Tarly who won that battle. Mace also gave Brightwater Keep to his son, Garlan, when Tarly's wife was second in line for Brightwater Keep.

He may also have an admiration for Connington, or even romantic feelings.

ETA: GIven the treatment of his sons, he may prefer a king like Aegon who chooses to lead in his battles over plump Tommen who likes to play with his kittens.

Romantic feelings?.......how?

Tarly has shown no signs of any contempt or disgruntlement to Mace Tyrell so he can't be the friend in the Reach.

I'm thinking Mathis Rowan, also the Fossoways have been lax on loyalty lately, then there's the Hightowers who have been Targ Loyalists.

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He may also have an admiration for Connington, or even romantic feelings.

:drunk: Randyll Tarly, the guy who put his son through an extreme form of "how to be a real man" boot camp, is secretly gay for Jon Connington...this I need to hear more about.

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:drunk: Randyll Tarly, the guy who put his son through an extreme form of "how to be a real man" boot camp, is secretly gay for Jon Connington...this I need to hear more about.

He's repressing his homosexuality, duh....

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When the General is stronger and more respected by his men than his lord, it is normal to asume it would be easy to betray the tyrell succesfully.

But it just means he has the power to do it, there is no proof he intents to.

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I think Randyll Tarly betraying Mace Tyrell is something I want to see, but who knows if that'll happen.

Regarding the friends in the Reach comment, my first guess would be the Hightowers given how they remained out of the war and have virtually unspent levies at their disposal.

I think Kevan makes a good point, Randyll Tarly is someone that perhaps can be won over, after all Mace has constantly slighted him, treated him much worse than Robert treated Stannis, and we know how much Stannis loved Robert.

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I think Randyll Tarly betraying Mace Tyrell is something I want to see, but who knows if that'll happen.

Regarding the friends in the Reach comment, my first guess would be the Hightowers given how they remained out of the war and have virtually unspent levies at their disposal.

I think Kevan makes a good point, Randyll Tarly is someone that perhaps can be won over, after all Mace has constantly slighted him, treated him much worse than Robert treated Stannis, and we know how much Stannis loved Robert.

But Stannis respected Robert and would never even think about betraying him. I ll even go as far as to say that Stannis is the only one fighting for Robert's patrimony. :P

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I just feel that he is a Targ loyalist and has animosity towards the Tyrells.

These things and as mentioned before, downplaying Aegons invasion and how everyone seems to make it clear how dangerous he is... The last person in the books to be described as so was Roose Bolton...

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He's repressing his homosexuality, duh....

Its time to launch a new ship - Jondyll :P

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Yeah, I never get this Tarly will leave the Tyrells at the drop of a hat either, but I can see him getting fed up if Tommen dies/is deemed illegitimate and Mace finally gives up his IT ambitions and just gets the hell out of Dodge/King's Landing, taking his daughter with him before there can be a trail by faith for her.

Randyll: Excuse me, I swore on my honor I would bring her to trail?

Mace: What the fuck do I care about your honor? Thx bye.

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I think the way Tarly is written and talked about in the novels, he comes across as very dangerous and ruthless, and I think most people are very cautious with him. Kevan reflects that Tarly is more dangerous than Mace Tyrell, who is hand at the time.

I think he could turn out out to be Roose of the South. Considering how other characters view Tyrell, and considering how little he tolerates weakness, I think Tarly would sell out Mace in seconds.

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