What is the Rhaegar Ruby Theory?

[mrlukeduke]

Technically he lived, but then was born still (still-born).

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Technically he lived, but then was born still (still-born).

Correct. Dany repeatedly feels the babe moving inside her, recognizing him as a living entity and even naming him.

Even in medieval times, once a woman was "quick" (that is, could feel the movements of the babe in her belly) it was considered alive. Thus the difference between a miscarriage and a still-birth (while both are given different terms in medical speak, these colloquial expressions best express our understanding of the two different types of fetal loss)

[jenoftheworldx]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

• Rhaegar
• Viserys
• Daenerys
• Rhaenys
• Aegon
• Rhaego

The seventh is Jon Snow.

blew my mind :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Mimessa]

Surprise 3rd option tPtwP isnt anything but a prophecy. I will totally buy your theory when the Jon Snow reveal happens and immediately after someone finds the ruby

Nice idea. Of course that would mean that Jon would have to come back south with the ruby/Stannis/ Mel

No and no. Chances are high we will never go back to QI (save for a rare moment if the Hound's truly there or in a flashback) and that this 6 &1 ruby deal wasn't even that integral to the story itself--it's more of another religious/mystical element Gurm included to emphasize to those who cared to look the mythological significance of Rhaegar's death. Gurm won't baby us and suddenly write " Ok and now I will neatly tie up every single prophecy, vision, allusion, reference, easter egg..." That's ridiculous, to put it plainly.

And for those discounting Rhaego, even in his death he plays an important role towards change and transformation of Dany and the world. Just because he was still-born (which, as others have pointed out, does not discount him from having lived) does not automatically remove him from the family tree.

The notion of time as a river and the geographical x metaphorical transportation of the rubies is brilliant and deepens the mythological significance of the rubies. On Planetos this singular moment will be told and retold for generations and perhaps they would include some reference to the 6 & 1 rubies of QI--they might, if the 7 still matter in a few centuries, try to compare the 6 & 1 to the gods. But it doesn't matter as it stands, it's more of a nod and wink & some insight into the development of myths themselves.

And y'all crying about JSno being so /special/ are silly--he may be special but he's not alone: FAegon, Dany, Bran, Arya, Tyrion, Meli... They're all pretty special and it's not uncommon for end-of-days heroes to have slightly different myths and names coming from different religions/cultures. And the hero/es will always be special and markedly different.

[OnlyOne]

I've said this before. There is so much prophecy and foreshadowing. You have to literally read every word, every story, every phrase. So much to be discovered!

[Ser Duncan the Small]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

• Rhaegar
• Viserys
• Daenerys
• Rhaenys
• Aegon
• Rhaego

The seventh is Jon Snow.

---

ETA: A little late here, but the above was originally posted by a one time user named MarinaC, following a discussion between a few of us in one of the earlier R+L=J threads. I didn't credit her initially because the search function wasn't working at the time and it hadn't occurred to me to use Google. :dunce:

Whats even weirder about Jon Snow, this makes him, a technicality cause there aren't seven boys, a seventh son.... o.O

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

• Rhaegar
• Viserys
• Daenerys
• Rhaenys
• Aegon
• Rhaego

The seventh is Jon Snow.

---

ETA: A little late here, but the above was originally posted by a one time user named MarinaC, following a discussion between a few of us in one of the earlier R+L=J threads. I didn't credit her initially because the search function wasn't working at the time and it hadn't occurred to me to use Google. :dunce:

Wow

This is just an amazing catch.

Every once and awhile you will read something in all of these theories that makes so much sense it feels like a key in your brain hitting the right tumbelr.

Kudos. Brilliant.

[Muggle]

I think most of your are missing the point.

This story is a Moasic. Every single word has a place. Every single sentence is carefully crafted to bind thr story.

It doesn't matter if you think the quote of the 6 of the 7 rubies is just some pious ranting.

GRRM specifically placed this line in here. A subtle hint for the more clever readers to catch. Its not the first time or the last time he has done this.

Wow
This is just an amazing catch.
Every once and awhile you will read something in all of these theories that makes so much sense it feels like a key in your brain hitting the right tumbelr.
Kudos. Brilliant.

You should check out the Blood Raven is Mels father theory.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Since the theory depends on the unborn Rhaego, don't all of Rhaella's unborn or short lived offspring discredit the theory?

[J. Stargaryen]

Since the theory depends on the unborn Rhaego, don't all of Rhaella's unborn or short lived offspring discredit the theory?

That's a good point. Consigliere suggested that the seven were:

1. Aerys

2. Rhaella

3. Viserys

4. Aegon

5. Rhaenys

6. Dany

7. Jon

I think that interpretation makes as much sense as the original does, and possibly even more. The rubies are supposed to represent Rhaegar's blood -- his family -- so maybe it doesn't make sense to include him, as the original interpretation did. But I think the main idea, that Jon is the seventh, still stands.

[SnowHeart]

^ If Jons the 7th and 'still stands', would that mean Danny has to die?

(Sorry, my quote thing doesn't work)

[J. Stargaryen]

^ If Jons the 7th and 'still stands', would that mean Danny has to die?

(Sorry, my quote thing doesn't work)

I'm not sure. The reason Jon is the seventh is that he is an unknown Targaryen. Dany's identity is known.

[Lost Melnibonean]

You know, the aix rubies could just be rubies, Rhaegar's, but just rubies. The seventh could be special--a red dragon, perhaps? So the George is hinting that a eed dragon is returning. Of course we should expect Daenerys for obvious reasons. Bit then we meet Aegon and think it's him until we recall the Clanking Dragon whose red is just rust. Rhaegar's seventh ruby, the true red dragon is Jon.

[J. Stargaryen]

You know, the aix rubies could just be rubies, Rhaegar's, but just rubies. The seventh could be special--a red dragon, perhaps? So the George is hinting that a eed dragon is returning. Of course we should expect Daenerys for obvious reasons. Bit then we meet Aegon and think it's him until we recall the Clanking Dragon whose red is just rust. Rhaegar's seventh ruby, the true red dragon is Jon.

They could be but I don't think they are.

[Snows Queen]

When Arya is traveling to KL doesn't she say she is going to the Trident to look for rubies because people have been finding them there? And as the battle was happening men stopped fighting to start grabbing rubies out of the water. I do not see any reason why anyone should think there are only 7 rubies. If he had found ten he would say we are waiting on the 11th. (Yes I know 7 is special to him and GRRM most likely used that # due to that but as I said it could have just as easily been any # waiting on the next #) And what about all of Aerys and Rhaella's other children? They lived, if only briefly.

[J. Stargaryen]

When Arya is traveling to KL doesn't she say she is going to the Trident to look for rubies because people have been finding them there? And as the battle was happening men stopped fighting to start grabbing rubies out of the water. I do not see any reason why anyone should think there are only 7 rubies. If he had found ten he would say we are waiting on the 11th. (Yes I know 7 is special to him and GRRM most likely used that # due to that but as I said it could have just as easily been any # waiting on the next #)

No one thinks that there were only seven rubies on Rhaegar's armor. Six have been found on the QI.

[MizasterJ]

ACoK, Daenerys IV (HotU):

Rubies = Rhaegar's blood. A person's family is often referred to as their "blood".

AFfC, Brienne VI:

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

• Rhaegar
• Viserys
• Daenerys
• Rhaenys
• Aegon
• Rhaego

The seventh is Jon Snow.

I dont think we are meant to count Rhaego seeing as how he was technically never actually "alive". He was born Dead on arrival.

So perhaps Tyrion instead?

[Halkyon]

If you recall the woods witch prophecy about the PtwP, she claimed it would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella. Well, it turns out that there have been six products of that union that are known in-story:

• Rhaegar

Viserys

Daenerys

Rhaenys

Aegon

Rhaego

The seventh is Jon Snow.

Maybe I'm a bit slow today, but the R+L-Jon being the seventh doesn't seem to fit in chronological ways - Rhaego would have come last to the "Isle". Besides Rhaego having never been born, I don't think the man on the Quiet Isle could have known about Rhaego. Therefore, the foreshadowing only fits when GRRM, not the man himself, is directly adressing the reader through the "prophecy" about the rubies at this point, I guess. So, maybe you could rule my doubts out?

And, asking anyway, maybe you could give me some update to the discussion about another part I found interesting: They found "rusted helms and shining swords" - why weren't the sword(s) rusted? Are there any ideas about this part?

edit: Somehting has come to my mind. If we are relating the Rubies to the Faith of the Seven, Rhaego may represent the seventh in truth being the Stranger. Just a thought that others might find useful in arguing (and asking, what part the others will represent, the Seven of Consigliere my be interesting: 1. Aerys, 2. Rhaella, 3. Viserys, 4. Aegon, 5. Rhaenys, 6. Dany, 7. Jon)

[J. Stargaryen]

I dont think we are meant to count Rhaego seeing as how he was technically never actually "alive". He was born Dead on arrival.

So perhaps Tyrion instead?

See post #130.

Maybe I'm a bit slow today, but the R+L-Jon being the seventh doesn't seem to fit in chronological ways - Rhaego would have come last to the "Isle". Besides Rhaego having never been born, I don't think the man on the Quiet Isle could have known about Rhaego. Therefore, the foreshadowing only fits when GRRM, not the man himself, is directly adressing the reader through the "prophecy" about the rubies at this point, I guess. So, maybe you could rule my doubts out?

And, asking anyway, maybe you could give me some update to the discussion about another part I found interesting: They found "rusted helms and shining swords" - why weren't the sword(s) rusted? Are there any ideas about this part?

edit: Somehting has come to my mind. If we are relating the Rubies to the Faith of the Seven, Rhaego may represent the seventh in truth being the Stranger. Just a thought that others might find useful in arguing (and asking, what part the others will represent, the Seven of Consigliere my be interesting: 1. Aerys, 2. Rhaella, 3. Viserys, 4. Aegon, 5. Rhaenys, 6. Dany, 7. Jon)

I don't think the chronology is the most important factor. I think it's more important that Jon is not a known Targaryen in story.

[Lost Melnibonean]

And if we count Rhaego don't we have count all the babies Rhaella lost?