The message of the series

[Littlefingers In The Air]

When you first ask the question, it seems to be a number of things. When you get into the details though, the question can lead to a more concrete answer. I think to get a coherent theme, it's best to try to correlate the different POVs. For the purposes of this thread, I'll use Stannis, Tyrion, Jon, Dany and the Lannister twins. There are other characters who's storylines could be used to reach my conclusion but I chose these ones because they seem to best convey the overall message.

Stannis Baratheon is a man who values justice overall. He has his sense of right and wrong and he fights for that. In the story, his brother won a throne through what most people in that world seem to accept as justified means. By the laws of that world, Stannis is the true king because his brother, the former king, had no true born sons. The world at large does not accept this and yet Stannis fights. Through wise council and objective contemplation, Stannis tries to do the right thing in a practical sense and despite dances with the dark side, he does what he can to remain true to himself. That leads to the next character.

Tyrion Lannister has gone through a lot. He was born a dwarf and his mother passed on to the next life giving birth to him. His physical limitations kept him from attaining a career as a knight and the circumstances of his birth deprived him of any love from his father. He sought comfort in trivial things like alcohol and women because he had no way to cope otherwise. He room great pride in his reading and he prides himself on knowledge. He was able to gain some sort of confidence gradually. Eventually, the treatment by his father drove him to murder and exile. His story has so far taught us that the way those closest to you treat you have a huge impact on our world view and can drive you into depression and madness. To love and not be loved in return is really not something to be taken lightly. And that takes us to the next character.

Jon Snow, as far as he knows, was born a bastard. He was looked down on as such. His father loved him as best he could but his fathers wife just could not love Jon. The kids loved him a a brother but Catelyn couldn't. He represented the disloyalty of her husband and she held that over Jon. So Jon could not learn to get over his bastard status. Eventually, he gets a chance to go somewhere where he can make a name for himself. His upbringing cause jealousy and strife among a lot of his Nights Watch brothers but Jon Snow makes the most of it and eventually ascends to Lord Commander. Like Tyrion, the circumstances of birth gave Jon a disadvantage in life but that was turned into only a minor hindrance. And that leads into the next character.

Dany Targaryen grew up the exiled daughter of the Mad King. She was lead to believe that her blood made her the heir to a throne in a land she'd never known. The events of the novels lead to her brothers death and she starts to believe she is the one true ruler of Westeros. She begins to amass an army and a strong team of guards and advisors. Poor decisions on her part, aided by her sense of wanting to so right, lead to economic devastation for two cities along her conquest. She learns from this, however. Dany is constantly shown to take a lesson from her mistakes and that even the right thing can lead to consequences you did not foresee.

The Lannister twins are as highborn as you can get. Born to Tywin Lannister of Casterly Rock, they were afforded the best of everything. In addition, they're beautiful people physically. They fell in love with each other and had an incestious relationship for most of their lives. Jaime Lannister was raised to the Kingsguard at a young age and Cersei Lannister has been queen most of her life. They both take actions throughout their lives that have a great impact on others. The storylines of the twins have Jaime assassinating the king he swore to protect while Cersei is shown manipulating people for political gain.

The stories show how thinking of the greater good can be grey. One thinks in the best interest of the whole and the other a portion of the whole. Both give us the message that you're simply not going to please everyone so you ought to do what you think is best and live with the consequences.

This brings me to the conclusion: The message of a song of ice and fire is that nobody really cares about what you think is right. Circumstances are a big factor in life but they can be swayed to your advantage. If you want that to happen, you're going to have to fight for it. Don't give up. Don't let disadvantages stop you. Don't underestimate what having power can do. No matter how strong you become, listen to those who know what they're talking about. They're there to help you. Do what you have to do to produce the best result of a situation and accept that people are going to talk regardless. Act! Never be afraid to act! It isn't about how you start but how you finish.

[Mladen]

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die...

There`s no greater truth than that :)

[Corvo Attano]

If you want that to happen, you're going to have to fight for it. Don't give up. Don't let disadvantages stop you. Don't underestimate what having power can do. No matter how strong you become, listen to those who know what they're talking about. They're there to help you. Do what you have to do to produce the best result of a situation and accept that people are going to talk regardless. Act! Never be afraid to act! It isn't about how you start but how you finish.

That sounds like something from a sports movie.

Anyway, One of the great things about ASoIaF is that there are many different meanings, and it can be interpreted pretty much any way you like :)

[Lord Tyrion's Whore]

I'm not sure there is a message, other than Varys's riddle to Tyrion. Its just a rip-roaring good read.

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

Honor is a horse

[jons nissa]

This brings me to the conclusion: The message of a song of ice and fire is that nobody really cares about what you think is right. Circumstances are a big factor in life but they can be swayed to your advantage. If you want that to happen, you're going to have to fight for it. Don't give up. Don't let disadvantages stop you. Don't underestimate what having power can do. No matter how strong you become, listen to those who know what they're talking about. They're there to help you. Do what you have to do to produce the best result of a situation and accept that people are going to talk regardless. Act! Never be afraid to act! It isn't about how you start but how you finish.

those are a lot of messages! i agree with the general theme though: nobody cares about what you think is right but they do care about who has the greatest power. i think this can apply to EVERY character and action they take as well as the magic that runs throughout the series as well as the others that will become a much larger "character" in the series.

[Luthien Targaryen]

:agree: with Mladen

Also i'd say that in general in the series that you should never judge a book by it's cover. There are many cases where people turn out to be nothing like you would think, you have smugglers who are really lords, plain girls who are knights, deadly little girls and heroes who are bastards, in both senses of the word. The pretty people are the ones you shouldn't cross and the short ugly guy will at least tell you the truth, even if you don't like it.

[King of Winters]

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die...

There`s no greater truth than that :)

:agree:

[butterbumps!]

I don't agree with the breakdown for "single message" (and there's actually closer to 10 listed in that last paragraph, lol). I think there's a lot more to each of those character arcs than the sort of "rise up in the face of diversity" that was mentioned.

If you really had to reduce ASOIAF to a (well, 2) "messages" I think it would be something more like "the heart in conflict with itself" and "constructions of power." But I really think this is way too reductive for this series.

[Mladen]

I don't agree with the breakdown for "single message" (and there's actually closer to 10 listed in that last paragraph, lol). I think there's a lot more to each of those character arcs than the sort of "rise up in the face of diversity" that was mentioned.

If you really had to reduce ASOIAF to a (well, 2) "messages" I think it would be something more like "the heart in conflict with itself" and "constructions of power." But I really think this is way too reductive for this series.

That`s why I hate those lines at the book covers. They think they explained everything, and they just missed the point. I agree there`s no clear message, or that creating it is reductive. Even my answer doesn`t talk about entire series, just the portion of it.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I don't agree with the breakdown for "single message" (and there's actually closer to 10 listed in that last paragraph, lol). I think there's a lot more to each of those character arcs than the sort of "rise up in the face of diversity" that was mentioned.

If you really had to reduce ASOIAF to a (well, 2) "messages" I think it would be something more like "the heart in conflict with itself" and "constructions of power." But I really think this is way too reductive for this series.

I had a thought in my head of what the one overarching message would be but I'm not really smart enough to articulate what it is so that's how I ended up with the 10 or so. My bad.

[Nerolunar]

Every character has a purpose and a meaning. Harry potter had one meaning, and one POV. That is how it is.

[butterbumps!]

I had a thought in my head of what the one overarching message would be but I'm not really smart enough to articulate what it is so that's how I ended up with the 10 or so. My bad.

Oh, I wasn't poking fun at you at all, I'm sorry if it looked that way. I was trying to point to how a single theme is really too reductive because there's clearly so many important themes, some of which are more important or prominent in some arcs than others.

I mean, I think you did locate a really significant message in your observation of how doing the "right" thing is usually morally grey (I would include that under the umbrella of "heart in conflict with itself" to some extent). I guess, trying to articulate one single from this several thousand page series might be fairly fruitless. One has to abstract the themes so much that they don't end up saying enough (which is why you likely enumerated at the end).

I guess, to really reduce things, everything really revolves around power and personal choice, but I suspect you're looking to trace how these iterate in the different arcs with more specificity, right?

That`s why I hate those lines at the book covers. They think they explained everything, and they just missed the point. I agree there`s no clear message, or that creating it is reductive. Even my answer doesn`t talk about entire series, just the portion of it.

lol, not just that. I think Cersei is wrong. I don't think it's "win or die." That's really the Tywin school of thought, where there's no half measures. And that's not how it actually is, is it?

[Mladen]

lol, not just that. I think Cersei is wrong. I don't think it's "win or die." That's really the Tywin school of thought, where there's no half measures. And that's not how it actually is, is it?

You know what, for them having power is their life, so when they lose it, they feel as they are dead. Look at Viserys, Cersei, Jaime. they are alive, but there were moments when they felt powerless as they were dead. Maybe it`s not literal death, but for some of them, power is life.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Oh, I wasn't poking fun at you at all, I'm sorry if it looked that way. I was trying to point to how a single theme is really too reductive because there's clearly so many important themes, some of which are more important or prominent in some arcs than others.

I mean, I think you did locate a really significant message in your observation of how doing the "right" thing is usually morally grey (I would include that under the umbrella of "heart in conflict with itself" to some extent). I guess, trying to articulate one single from this several thousand page series might be fairly fruitless. One has to abstract the themes so much that they don't end up saying enough (which is why you likely enumerated at the end).

I guess, to really reduce things, everything really revolves around power and personal choice, but I suspect you're looking to trace how these iterate in the different arcs with more specificity, right?

Sorry to have taken it the wrong way. And right! What I was trying to do was pinpoint similar messages in different arcs and draw them back to what the message might be. It seems to me that for every character that makes decisions that build upon a theme, there are other characters that make decisions that make decisions which build upon the exact same theme but from a different angle and with different results. The twins are a good example of this.

[Sworn Shield]

The message of the series is:

Don't eat yellow snow, but not really.

[butterbumps!]

You know what, for them having power is their life, so when they lose it, they feel as they are dead. Look at Viserys, Cersei, Jaime. they are alive, but there were moments when they felt powerless as they were dead. Maybe it`s not literal death, but for some of them, power is life.

Oh, I didn't mean it that way. The "win or die" thing is about creating an either/ or imperative that works with a zero sum game. I don't think the game is actually zero sum though (this is how Tywin tried to play it, and LF exploits this, but I probably don't have to explain that I reject their views on this). The "game of thrones" isn't innately a win/die scenario. The "ice and fire" thing seems like it might be though, and in order to "win" that, there can't really be the same sort of zero sum thrones game going on.

[Mladen]

Oh, I didn't mean it that way. The "win or die" thing is about creating an either/ or imperative that works with a zero sum game. I don't think the game is actually zero sum though (this is how Tywin tried to play it, and LF exploits this, but I probably don't have to explain that I reject their views on this). The "game of thrones" isn't innately a win/die scenario. The "ice and fire" thing seems like it might be though, and in order to "win" that, there can't really be the same sort of zero sum thrones game going on.

Oh, we were thinking in different ways. No problem. And I agree, it`s not zero sum, as was shown many times from Dany to Starks, and all between. As for ice and fire, if you mean Last Hero vs Others, that is zero sum, but I always thought that ASOIAF is metaphor for coexistence of opposite poles, eternal battle in one individual.

[Gronzag]

"Stay away from weddings"

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

Always use protection. And don't chew sourleaf, that shit will fuck up your gums.