Direwolf of the Starks Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I mean yes he was going to fight a southern army( south of the wall anyway) but the army he was going to fight threatened to destroy the nights watch right. So why shouldn't he have tried to lead a march against Ramsay. He may have had other motivations on top of that but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It threatened to destroy him,Not the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterKing Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 This is a good discussion, there are some excellent threads on the subject.Hint: use the Search function of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It threatened to destroy him,Not the watch.Yup.It was a threat to him, not the Watch directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwolf of the Starks Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Your false king is dead bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you OR your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.- Ramsay's LetterTo me when he says "I won't trouble you or your black crows" he was threatening Jon and the NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.This bit is more of the direct threat Jon was planning to respond to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwolf of the Starks Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.This bit is more of the direct threat Jon was planning to respond to. but in the letter he also threatened the entire NW as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 but in the letter he also threatened the entire NW as well.Jon says: "This creature who makes cloaks out of the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out and I mean to make him answer for that threat,But I will not ask my brothers to foreswear their vows"It's clear which threat he meant to make Ramsay answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 He was planning on coming back so I don't think he broke his vows, he never got the chance to anyway cause he was stabbed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 He was planning on coming back so I don't think he broke his vows, he never got the chance to anyway cause he was stabbedIt's not a question of deserting, it's a question of using the Watch for his own purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 The Halfhand commanded him not to break and do whatever was needed to gain the trust of the wildlings. This was an order, given by a senior officer. He did not break his vows. He did what was asked, by the Nights Watch."I won't trouble you OR your black crows". That was pretty clear threat to the NW as well.Sorry folks, Jon is still as pure as a new born baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's not a question of deserting, it's a question of using the Watch for his own purpose.Oh but I'm probably grasping at straws but wouldn't Ramsey be threatening the whole Night Watch since it is their Lord Commander and a brother of the Night's Watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dublin Warrior Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 A threat to the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch is a direct threat to the Nights Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 A threat to the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch is a direct threat to the Nights Watch.I'm assuming the well-being of the whole Watch passes before the well-being of the Lord Commander, especially when the threat on the LC is purely political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan_Snow Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's not a question of deserting, it's a question of using the Watch for his own purpose.But wasn't he going to use the Wildlings as his troops? The watch was going to stay at the wall. Jon was going South with Wildlings, and as far as I can tell planned on returning. There is at least a bit of a grey area in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm assuming the well-being of the whole Watch passes before the well-being of the Lord Commander, especially when the threat on the LC is purely political.Yes, it was clearly political, no dispute at all. Regardless, Ramsey made an open threat to the NW, not just Snow. I persoanlly don't feel Jon broke his vows. The issue I have trouble swallowing, is the fact that Jon himself; felt he could be breaking his vows....thus him giving the rest of the NW a choice in going to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSnow House Stark Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 As always it's a grey area. He wasn't deserting and didn't ask the NW to join him. So it all depends on your POV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Lannister Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 God I hope Ramsay gets wrecked in the next book. Preferably in a duel with Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Crow Come Over Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 This is a good discussion, there are some excellent threads on the subject.Hint: use the Search function of the forum.Search is down, let the new people post what they want alot of these discussion are buried and years old, its good to have new discussions with new ppl.To answer the OP, yes, Jon broke more than one vow as a member of the NW which is why he "death" was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 God I hope Ramsay gets wrecked in the next book. Preferably in a duel with Jon.I don't think there is any doubt that Ramsey will meet his end, in the next book. But I doubt it will be by Jon. Jon is a little "under the weather" at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.