How would you rate episode 309?

[Retorus]

That's what Patrick does, unfortunately.

[Lehnaru]

I appreciate constructive criticism but it seems like you are just inventing things to criticize for the sake of it. It`s fair enough to say that you didn't like Barristan's expression because you expected him to be more serious and it almost look like he was drunk but to flip out and say that show Barristan is a drunk who neglect his duties, when nobody else noticed that, is ridiculous.

Indeed! I simply saw him having a drink. You know, like normal people do when they get thirsty.

[PatrickStormborn]

That's what you think it looks like, it's not a fact. It would probably be a big topic if more people thought he looked drunk.

I question your reaction though. Why would you sooner go to "Barristan is getting drunk" than to "the actor made the character look drunk"? You must think that there's some logic to showing Barristan neglecting his duty and still not expanding on it.

A lot of people do think he looked drunk, hence why that gif was made. It's just been upstaged by the Red Wedding.

The actor does what the script says. Barristan was drinking wine and shrugged at Dany rather than saying anything. That suggests that they deliberately wrote it as him being drunk.

[Honourable Ser]

That said, he might have just fancied a quick drink to ease the tension. If so, he has brains as well as his undeniable prowess with a sword!

[Pinkie Baelish]

Sorry you can't handle criticism about the show, but some of us like to critically engage with what we watch and not just blindly accept everything. Even the least attentive viewers should be able to pick up the inconsistency of Barristan's actions.

The funny thing is, you are literally the only person I have seen across several websites that saw Barristan as being drunk. I didn't even see noted critics like Sepinwall interpreting it in the same way, or even mentioning it, which puts you in the minority. So you're saying that you only one of a select few who correctly judged the showrunners' intentions, and anybody that doesn't agree with you clearly wasn't paying enough attention? Yeah, okay. Unfortunately that generalization would encompass about 99% of the people who watched the episode, and that's a strawman I really don't like.

The show is not known for its subtlety. If it wanted to make clear that Barristan was drunk, it would have done so in a more explicit manner.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Pinkie Baelish

[telecasterjory]

I really think they gave the NorthMen no props in how the scene went down. As I recall, the Stark entourage put up a lot more resistance in the books. So they made a painful scene even worse than it had to be, with no blood spilled by the Northmen on the Freys. Didnt the GreatJohn kick some major ass?

[Tywin's bastard]

A lot of people do think he looked drunk, hence why that gif was made. It's just been upstaged by the Red Wedding.

The actor does what the script says. Barristan was drinking wine and shrugged at Dany rather than saying anything. That suggests that they deliberately wrote it as him being drunk.

Now you're starting to make me laugh. Sober people don't shrug? I don't think we'll come any further with this.

[Khal Porno]

A lot of people do think he looked drunk, hence why that gif was made. It's just been upstaged by the Red Wedding.

The actor does what the script says. Barristan was drinking wine and shrugged at Dany rather than saying anything. That suggests that they deliberately wrote it as him being drunk.

Haha you are not very familiar with actors if you think they ONLY do what is in the script and never try to add their own little flourishes. If the script says "Barristan has a glass of wine and shrugs in response to Dany's question," it just means "he had a drink of wine and responded nonverbally to Dany's question." The actor's expression and mannerisms (chosen by the actor or possibly influenced by the director) are what are indicating to you that he is drunk (personally I don't think he is).

[King of the Road]

Barristan Selmy had a little wine, but he is clearly not hammered, if at all drunk, he's just a little quiet. If he had been lying on the floor in front of Daenerys, sitting in his own urine and vomiting on Missandei then that would have been an issue.

[PatrickStormborn]

Now you're starting to make me laugh. Sober people don't shrug? I don't think we'll come any further with this.

He had blurry eyes, he was overly relaxed, he was silent, and his shrugging didn't fit with what we'd already seen of the character. I don't know how else the actor could have shown that he was drunk? Just because he wasn't as bad as Tyrion, Cersei and Robert doesn't mean he wasn't drunk.

Barristan should have been ready to protect Daenerys at any moment - that's what the Queensguard are for. Instead he was drinking. For me, that's just an unneccessary problem.

[Tywin's bastard]

I really think they gave the NorthMen no props in how the scene went down. As I recall, the Stark entourage put up a lot more resistance in the books. So they made a painful scene even worse than it had to be, with no blood spilled by the Northmen on the Freys. Didnt the GreatJohn kick some major ass?

We didn't get to see how things took place outside the castle walls. In the shots we did see it was very believable that the Freys just took them out and there wasn't any other northerners around to see anything before they were attacked themselves. There might have been out on the fields though.

[Pinkie Baelish]

What the fuck is the show doing with Roose? Did anyone else see the way he suggestively had his arm right next to Catelyn? Why was the show teasing an attraction between Roose and Catelyn? The actor does what the script says. Roose was leering at Cat and had his arm next to her in a flirtatious manner. That suggests that they deliberately wrote him as perving over Catelyn.

/sarcasm.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Pinkie Baelish

[Gillio]

I don't see how it could have the same emotional punch since you already knew what was going to happen. I personally loved the episode, 10/10.

I've read the scene in the books many times, and the suspense and tension is still as strong and haunting as ever.

The thing is, with many scenes, one viewing of the TV version is enough to override the picture in my head of that scene, derived from my reading. "Dracarys" especially springs to mind, as does "stick it with the pointy end" and Bran's fall.

BUT not the red wedding, and it should have.

I had to think on this for a day, at first i wasnt so entirely sure what i thought of the episode, and the adaptation of the red wedding.

However in retrospect, I can;t lie to myself the episode was simply decent-to-good, I rate it an 8. It might seem liek im beign a bit harsh considering the restraints of tv but some of the changes seemed like really poor choices, not to discredit the things the did well.

The depiction of the red wedding in particular just wasn't what it could been. It wasn't bad by any means, hell i dont watch much tv but it wouldn't be hard to imagine that something like this is unprecedented on television. It's just considering that this was THE moment that made D&D want to write the show, the event the they wanted to adapt to tv the most, it is dissapointing. I expected better, sadly what i got was conformation that the tv adaptation would continue to merely be decent.

I agree

[protar]

Just my two cents but I thought Barristan looked pretty drunk as well. I'd have to tally up any references to Barristan drinking but it seems the him having a drink at all when guarding his queen during the midst of a siege would be out of character.

But hey, as it wasn't definitive it's easy enough to say, "Nope I just misread is facial expression."

[King of the Road]

What the fuck is the show doing with Roose? Did anyone else see the way he suggestively had his arm right next to Catelyn? Why was the show teasing an attraction between Roose and Catelyn? The actor does what the script says. Roose was leering at Cat and had his arm next to her in a flirtatious manner. That suggests that they deliberately wrote him as perving over Catelyn.

/sarcasm.

My God you're right! How did I miss that, it's quite clear that in the series the RW is the result of Roose's unrequited love for Catelyn! The old 'If I can't have her, no one can!' scenario.

[Tywin's bastard]

He had blurry eyes, he was overly relaxed, he was silent, and his shrugging didn't fit with what we'd already seen of the character. I don't know how else the actor could have shown that he was drunk? Just because he wasn't as bad as Tyrion, Cersei and Robert doesn't mean he wasn't drunk.

Barristan should have been ready to protect Daenerys at any moment - that's what the Queensguard are for. Instead he was drinking. For me, that's just an unneccessary problem.

I guess we'll see when D&D gives out their "inside the episode" video. If he's intended to be drunk they will definitely comment on it.

[Pinkie Baelish]

My God you're right! How did I miss that, it's quite clear that in the series the RW is the result of Roose's unrequited love for Catelyn! The old 'If I can't have her, no one can!' scenario.

Fucking Benioff and Weiss and their character assassinations...(skulks off and grumbles)

[Ser_Davos]

Hmmm, difficult one, but lets see.

First, the cons:

- no drums thundering through the massacre: -0.5

- Robb sitting on a front table and not on the dais, like a king should, surrounded by his guard: -0.5

- there was no fighting alongside the slaughter, no Greatjon slamming people around and throwing a table on top of Robb to protect him: -0.5

- the way Greywind was handled was absolutely humiliating. They didn't show him scaring Pimple's horse and giving an excuse to Lord Frey to demand the wolf stay out of the castle, they never showed him howling and he was also supposed to have cut a man's arm and have taken several quarrels before dying: -1

- Catelyn was feeling very apprehensive and touchy through the whole thing, not merry and jolly: -0.5

- Roslin seemed terrified in the book: -0.5

- the way Robb got up after being shot was plain awkward: -0.5

- Roose visibly and ponderously walked up to Robb, shoved the sword and twisted it, he didn't sneak up from behind and stabbed him from close quarters, he wanted everyone to witness the deed: -1

- Catelyn not tearing her cheeks: -1 (I mean, what where they thinking)

Then, the pros:

- Edmure, so good in his role: +0.5

- Walder Frey, absolutely perfect and blood chilling: +1

- Talisa's death, gruesome horrifying and totally shocking: +0.5

- the slaughter scene was just so gory it made me physically ill: +0.5

- the Rains of Castamere: +0.5

- All things considered, Catelyn was absolutely fabulously played, heartbreaking and horrifying: +1

So all in all, I'd say an 8 would be a fair rating.

[Honourable Ser]

Fucking Benioff and Weiss and their character assassinations...(skulks off and grumbles)

The comment Cat made about Ned not wanting to break a man’s jaw on their wedding day during the bedding! It’s so obvious now, he was talking about Roose! Ned must have known how Roose felt and so separated him from his one true love!

[Pinkie Baelish]

The comment Cat made about Ned not wanting to break a man’s jaw on their wedding day during the bedding! It’s so obvious now, he was talking about Roose! Ned must have known how Roose felt and so separated him from his one true love!

Clearly the showrunners ship CaRoose.