Robb's worst betrayals came from his aunt and his grandfather

[Booknerd2]

True. Hoster was probably sitting back waiting for him to die and his kids would be occupied warring against each other. No work needed.

[mindchap]

:bs:

She signed his death warrant when she released Jamie Lannister, on the chance that someone, that she doesn't even fully trust, might get her daughters back. He was the only child she had left who was alive and free and she's been in the north long enough to know those men would never forget it. She traded Robb's life for words from Littlefinger.

[Chaircat Meow]

She signed his death warrant when she released Jamie Lannister, on the chance that someone, that she doesn't even fully trust, might get her daughters back. He was the only child she had left who was alive and free and she's been in the north long enough to know those men would never forget it. She traded Robb's life for words from Littlefinger.

What has releasing Jaime got to do with anything? It wouldn't have stopped Tywin removing Robb like he did, he'd have just insisted on the Freys/Boltons taking more hostages at the RW so he could trade for Jaime.

The LF is from the show too, not the books.

edit: your title is super confusing btw. I thought I was going mad for a second when I saw your post count.

[mindchap]

What has releasing Jaime got to do with anything? It wouldn't have stopped Tywin removing Robb like he did, he'd have just insisted on the Freys/Boltons taking more hostages at the RW so he could trade for Jaime.

The LF is from the show too, not the books.

The topic is betrayals, and that was Robb's worst one. And if the LF part is just in the show then that makes it even worse.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

She signed his death warrant when she released Jamie Lannister, on the chance that someone, that she doesn't even fully trust, might get her daughters back. He was the only child she had left who was alive and free and she's been in the north long enough to know those men would never forget it. She traded Robb's life for words from Littlefinger.

I'd go one act further. Take Tyrion straight to Kings Landing where her husband is the hand of the King and Littlefinger resides to give him a proper trial then the Lannisters have no reason to attack the Riverlands to get the Imp released.

[mindchap]

I'd go one act further. Take Tyrion straight to Kings Landing where her husband is the hand of the King and Littlefinger resides to give him a proper trial then the Lannisters have no reason to attack the Riverlands to get the Imp released.

That would have worked too, a whole lot better.

[Chaircat Meow]

The topic is betrayals, and that was Robb's worst one.

You said death warrant though so I assumed you meant no Jaime release no RW. And that's wrong.

[mindchap]

You said death warrant though so I assumed you meant no Jaime release no RW. And that's wrong.

No I just meant that put an end to Robb, it completely undermined his authority and while some of his men were understanding about the whole mother's grief thing some of them were not.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

How about Theon? If he never betrays Robb and takes Winterfell, allegedly killing Robb's younger brothers, leaving Robb with no legitimate male heirs, then Robb is never stressed enough to break his vows. Especially if you combine that with Catelyn never releasing Jaime. I'd say the Red Wedding is as much on Theon as it is on Walder and Roose and Tywin.

[The Frosted King]

It's not as simple as that. She's taking a huge gamble on her sons Kingdom, and possibly life. It's not like the Starks or Tullys couldn't of backed down and kept their positions. Robb choose not to bend the knee when others suggested it and all looked lost.

You can't bend the knee to Joffrey.

One because he killed your father, and making peace in the south ultimately undermines his rule in the north.

Two because he'll call for your head anyways, and war renews again.

The guy on the throne isn't reasonable, at all.

[Chaircat Meow]

Theon never betrayed Robb. Went to Balon did his best to convince him to back Robb (which was shit but nevermind) and then fought for his father.

[RedBean]

I think Hoster should have done something about the Late Walder Frey, but I don't think it should have extended to ending their House. Being late for a battle is cowardly, but it's not worth a hanging or anything like that. Blaming Hoster Tully for the outcome of the war is ridiculous, since the Riverlands were some of Robb's strongest supporters during the war, and bore the brunt of the Lannisters' attack. Hoster didn't 'betray' Robb in any way.

Lysa, I'll give you, but not for the reason you listed. She betrayed Catelyn (and the Starks as an extension) when she sent her a false letter accusing the Lannisters of Jon Arryn's murder. Also, it was cowardly of her to hide in the Vale during the entire war, but Lysa has more than one family. Her son is what's most important to her, not her nephew. While she did betray her family, she was also trying to look out for her son. As well, she was manipulated by LF and was slightly crazy too. I wouldn't place too much blame on her. I doubt she was actually thinking straight.

[The Frosted King]

Hoster didn't betray Robb, knowingly sensational were my words.

But i do think he failed Robb.

The lack of fear made Walder bold enough to make demands when by rights, he should've been bending over backwards to be of assistance.

The Frey line didn't need to end.

His sons just should've seen old Walders skinny, knobby knees jerk, stiffen and finally swing.

Future behavior would keep such a sight in mind.

[The Frosted King]

I think Hoster should have done something about the Late Walder Frey, but I don't think it should have extended to ending their House. Being late for a battle is cowardly, but it's not worth a hanging or anything like that. Blaming Hoster Tully for the outcome of the war is ridiculous, since the Riverlands were some of Robb's strongest supporters during the war, and bore the brunt of the Lannisters' attack. Hoster didn't 'betray' Robb in any way.

Lysa, I'll give you, but not for the reason you listed. She betrayed Catelyn (and the Starks as an extension) when she sent her a false letter accusing the Lannisters of Jon Arryn's murder. Also, it was cowardly of her to hide in the Vale during the entire war, but Lysa has more than one family. Her son is what's most important to her, not her nephew. While she did betray her family, she was also trying to look out for her son. As well, she was manipulated by LF and was slightly crazy too. I wouldn't place too much blame on her. I doubt she was actually thinking straight.

She can't care too much about her son if she's willing to watch those who would be his strongest allies die, while a regime she hates and fears replaces them with people who likely wouldn't lift a finger if her sweet boy were to be surrounded by hostile swords.

Would Frey send swords to the Eyrie?

Would Bolton?

[Chaircat Meow]

It wouldn't have mattered how hard Hoster came down on him. When he made the deal with Cat in GoT the riverland's army had been beaten anyway. Robb was stuck outside the Twins and a large lannister army was approaching.

Frey could demand what he liked.

[RedBean]

Hoster didn't betray Robb, knowingly sensational were my words.

But i do think he failed Robb.

The lack of fear made Walder bold enough to make demands when by rights, he should've been bending over backwards to be of assistance.

The Frey line didn't need to end.

His sons just should've seen old Walders skinny, knobby knees jerk, stiffen and finally swing.

Future behavior would keep such a sight in mind.

I can agree with that, I guess. I think that Hoster probably thought that the crime wasn't worth pursuing, and the Late Lord was going to die eventually anyways. In hindsight, it was a big mistake to let him live, but at the time of the offence, they'd just won the war, the men wanted to go home, etc. It was probably just a small oversight.

The word 'betrayal' gets slung around a lot in this forum, not always used in the right context. I'm glad that in your case it was just an exaggeration, though.

[RedBean]

She can't care too much about her son if she's willing to watch those who would be his strongest allies die, while a regime she hates and fears replaces them with people who likely wouldn't lift a finger if her sweet boy were to be surrounded by hostile swords.

Would Frey send swords to the Eyrie?

Would Bolton?

First of all, she wanted to stay out of the war, period. So that there would be no need for anyone else to help her, like the Freys or the Boltons. And also, like I said, she wasn't thinking straight, and was probably crazy as well. I doubt she thought of long term consequences.

[bbstark]

and this becomes an "evil Cat" thread.... wasn't this a rule of boardology a while back?

[Chaircat Meow]

and this becomes an "evil Cat" thread.... wasn't this a rule of boardology a while back?

Thought it was more of an evil Lysa thread.

Without Cat Robb does not get across the Twins. Even if he did he would lose most of the foot because no one would tell him no to the Greatjon.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

and this becomes an "evil Cat" thread.... wasn't this a rule of boardology a while back?

Who has said she's evil in this thread?

Misguided, certainly.