Robb's worst betrayals came from his aunt and his grandfather

[Manderlay]

Which is why she is a treacherous scumbag....

well she is more nuts than a treacherous scumbag, she was being manipulated by LF from the start, we see her loose it in AFFC with the whole LF kissing Sansa thing, she was not right in the head and her love for LF was what made her keep her amies out of the war and not aid the starks and her own home.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Lysa betrayed her sister's family when she killed her husband and lied about it, indirectly starting a war. Not helping Robb was just a consequence of it.

[tydides]

I don't think Hoster Tully should be responsible for the Frey debacle, because, like others have said, you always have ambitious bannermen and you can't just kill them all for suspecting some foul play (except if you are Tywin Lannister, of course). However, Lysa Arryn is one of the most terrible, evil characters in the series. I actually dislike reading about her than Cersei. Sure, Cat was a bit of an idiot (im not to fond of any of the Tullys besides Blackfish, really) but I think the blame falls most directly on Lysa and Littlefinger for the war. And Lysa doesn't even help out Robb's cause. I was thinking that the Arryn forces would come sweeping out of the mountains, winning a decisive victory against the Lannisters, and turning the tides of the war. Alas, it never happened, and Lysa sat in the Eyrie doting on her weakling son and making stupid leadership decisions.

[Barty]

We can call her actions cowardly, and brand her as such. However this does not mean that she betrayed Robb, as she was under no obligation to help him. As the Regent of the Vale she was perfectly within her rights to sit back and watch. And if she is a coward why have her knights go storming off to help a cause which she isn't interested in?

My point was not that she betrayed Robb the King but rather she betrayed her family - Robb was part of that family. Sure she had every right to not send men to help Robb but as his aunt she did have a moral obligation. Also she did betray her family by lying to them and getting them into a conflict with the Lannisters.

[Lord Reaver]

You can't go around hanging every bannermen who does mucks something up,You keep doing that you will eventually have a rebellion on your hands.

Exactly. In fact, this was why Balon's rebellion failed so spectacularly. He banked on Robert and his Paramounts doing what he'd done in their case, i.e crack down on people like the riverlords who supported the Targaryens. If Hoster had exterminated a House just for being late, that would put all those other houses to plotting rebellion right quick, because desperate men do desperate things. Cue Balon's rebellion and you'd have Robert fighting a whole 'nother uprising from Targaryen loyalists at the same time trying to stop the ironmen.

History would be different, yes, but I don't think quite how the OP imagines it. Think Ironborn ruling the Riverlands again.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

Exactly. In fact, this was why Balon's rebellion failed so spectacularly. He banked on Robert and his Paramounts doing what he'd done in their case, i.e crack down on people like the riverlords who supported the Targaryens. If Hoster had exterminated a House just for being late, that would put all those other houses to plotting rebellion right quick, because desperate men do desperate things. Cue Balon's rebellion and you'd have Robert fighting a whole 'nother uprising from Targaryen loyalists at the same time trying to stop the ironmen.

History would be different, yes, but I don't think quite how the OP imagines it. Think Ironborn ruling the Riverlands again.

Walder Frey didn't muck it up, though. You muck things up when you king asks you to get some glasses from the kitchen cabinet and you drop them. When your liege lord calls your banners, you come. That's defaulting on your oaths.

I think that Hoster Tully should have made a new lord Frey, just like he made a new lord Goodbrook.

That aside, he did not betray Robb.

As for Lysa Tully, well, she was under no actual obligation to help Robb. Had she been a sane woman and not complicit in Jon Arryn's murder, I don't doubt she would have assisted her nephew. But then again, Lysa WAS insane and WAS part of Jon Arryn's deathsquad.

Of course, who could have seen the War of the Five Kings coming? Everybody assumed Robert was going to stay king for many a year, strong and healthy (if fat) as he was.

[Corvo Attano]

Lysa couldn't 'betray' Robb, because she was never on his side in the first place, and was under no obligation whatsoever to join his side.

[The Frosted King]

Lysa couldn't 'betray' Robb, because she was never on his side in the first place, and was under no obligation whatsoever to join his side.

Only under the obligation of blood ties.

[MasterJack]

Only under the obligation of blood ties.

She is acting as a regent for her son, who is an Arryn. + This is her sister's son war. Her responsability is with the Arryn, not the Tully, and even less the Stark.

[Corvo Attano]

Only under the obligation of blood ties.

By that logic, Sansa betrayed Robb because she never fought against the Iron Throne.

[Barty]

By that logic, Sansa betrayed Robb because she never fought against the Iron Throne.

One is a prisoner and the other is free and controlling 40,000 swords. Yes, I see now that they are in the exact same situation. However I agree that Lysa had a moral obligation to help Robb - not some lawful obligation or oath.

[Mulled Wino]

Hoster would have made a valuable ally in whomever succeeds if he killed walder. The freys are all dying for walder to go away.

[Barty]

I don't think Hoster was in a position to hurt the Freys. The Freys control 4000 men while at the trident Hoster probably had only 6-7k. Too few to kill old lord walder. He should have done something though - maybe take away some lands( enough to punish but not enough for Frey to rebel over).

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Does that mean Ned is to blame for Roose and Rickard's betrayals?

Every lord has ambitious bannermen ready to betray him if he seems weak, it's the nature of the system.

I see where you're going with that but Roose and Rickard were loyal bannermen until they weren't. They had never betrayed Ned, so far as we know, so the situation is different.

[Sansa_Stark]

I'm fairly certain Lysa's "Petyr told me to tell Cat that the Lannisters killed my husband. That was so clever" or something of the sort indicates that she knew what she was going to do to her family and actually enjoyed their downfall.

[Djinn]

Lysa is the only house leader who worked against her family, other than Cersei. That should say it all.

Actually, Renly-Stannis, Roose-Domeric, Axell/Selyse-Alester, Doran-Arianne/Oberyn, Euron-Victarion/Aeron/Asha, Randyll-Samwell, Tywin-Tyrion, Joffrey-Tyrion, Kevan-Cersei, Tywin-Walder. There's quite a few examples of leaders working against family members. In fact, by making a deal with the Starks, Walder Frey is acting against his Lannister relations (his 2dn son is married to Tywin sister).

A oath of support is very different from a expectation of support. Robb didn't support Stannis, despite the fact that his dad did.

[Chaircat Meow]

why doesn't Robb get across?? He knew he could not attack the twins - he was ready to negotiate. He would have just sent in another man to bring terms(like the Blackfish - who probably would have gotten sweeter terms out of walder Frey IMO).And Robb still ends up losing the majority of his foot - at least if he had sent the greatJon the Lannisters would have paid a higher price to destroy that army.

And Walder had no reason to get involved unless he was given a truly extortionate bribe. Anyone else apart from Cat would have balked at the price. The Blackfish: don't make me laugh. He'd have chewed out Walder for not aiding Hoster; Walder would take offense and they'd be still sitting outside the Twins when Tywin arrived. Walder is an epic troll and only Cat had the patience with/knowledge of him to deal with him. He doesn't just throw his lot in with whoever asks, look what he did the last time.

Robb didn't lose the majority of the foot in the first battle, he lost a third of the army. The Greatjon, one can surmise, would have fallen for the lannister on battlefield feint and most of the army would have been annihilated on the battlefield.

Cat does nothing but make lucky saves for Robb throughout his wars and when she is no longer with him, or shut out, he makes idiotic decisions one after the other.

[Chaircat Meow]

Is this a joke? Theon absolutely betrayed Robb. His intimate knowledge of Winterfell was what allowed the Ironborn to take it. You think the Ironborn would've attacked Winterfell without Theon's advice? No way. He knew Rodrik Cassel. Knew the man would abandon Winterfell to aid his nearby allies. Knew he'd leave just a couple men to hold the castle.

Robb sent Theon to Balon in good faith, assuming Theon was his steadfast friend and ally. Theon could have chosen to raid the Stony Shore. Or to move on to Torrhen's Square. He specifically targeted Winterfell. He made the entire world think he murdered Bran and Rickon. Theon's actions were a betrayal not just to Robb, but to the Stark family, and to the entire North. Theon's actions enabled Ramsay to sack Winterfell. Theon's actions are the direct cause of Robb's grief when he took the Crag. Theon betrayed Robb.

No, is this?

Betray is to aid the enemy of the country, or men/women you owe loyalty to, or serve. As we both agree Theon did not betray the Starks by fighting with the ironborns in their war with the north. So, if that is not betrayal, then sacking WF can't be either, really, as it was an action in that war. It feels like a betrayal to the people involved, like Theon/Robb, but in truth it wasn't.

[nirolo]

Betray is to aid the enemy of the country, or men/women you owe loyalty to, or serve. As we both agree Theon did not betray the Starks by fighting with the ironborns in their war with the north. So, if that is not betrayal, then sacking WF can't be either, really, as it was an action in that war. It feels like a betrayal to the people involved, like Theon/Robb, but in truth it wasn't.

Let me make sure I'm getting this...

Theon did no betray Robb because Theon is ironborn, a hostage to the Starks, as such he was never loyal to Robb. So Robb was a fool to trust Theon in the first place, and Theon turning on Robb is just Theon becoming who he truly is?

Did I get it right?

[Howling Mad]

Dude, Theon still ranks as number one betrayal since Theon's actions ultimately cost Robb Winterfell setting up Roose's and Walder's ability to carryout the RW.

And yes to all of you Ironborn apologists Theon did betray Robb, as he promised one action and carried out another. Kind of like what Reek did to Theon, har.