There must be a Stark in Winterfell

[Gekke Henkie]

I haven't been able to find any threads on this, apologies if I missed it, westeros.org is acting like it's under a permanent DDoS siege. Why must there be a Stark in WF? Is it a coincidence winter comes when the Starks are out of WF? This sentence is so often repeated, it has to have some significance right (I've never heard anybody say "There must be Tully in Riverrun" for example)? Please discuss or point me to the right thread.

[Groat]

It's a curse.

[Corvo Attano]

Its an unofficial motto, like "A Lannister always pays his debts". It may have some significance, be we don' know exactly how or why.

[KhalDrogoReborn]

I like that idea! Mabye the reason that there was a long summer is because there was a Stark in Winterfell all that time.

[Mladen]

Starks have ruled from Winterfell for thousands of years, longer than any other House anywhere else. Whether it`s legacy of some sort, or literacy foreshadowing, it`s uncertain, but it works both way.

[Gekke Henkie]

The Stark in WF / winter theory is pretty slim though, We've heard some talk of previous winters, and have had no indication that there wasn't a Stark in WF at that time. If it doesn't have to do with winter, but the words still have some 'magical' significance, it could be a motive for Benjen to be HM.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Starks have ruled from Winterfell for thousands of years, longer than any other House anywhere else.

The Lannisters would disagree with you. They have been ruling Casterly Rock for at least as long as the Starks had Winterfell.

And there is the chance that the Daynes have been at Starfall even longer.

[sixgunbuddyguy]

wether or not they have been there longer than other houses have been in their...houses... i think its just a statement of there SHOULD be a stark there, it just doesn't seem right to not have one, since it is their place. also, it being burned down is probably a bad thing too.

[Groat]

The Lannisters would disagree with you. They have been ruling Casterly Rock for at least as long as the Starks had Winterfell.

And there is the chance that the Daynes have been at Starfall even longer.

The Lannisters claim to descend from Lann the clever, who lived in the age of heroes which I believe happened after the Long Night. Before Lann the clever it was the Casterlys who held Casterly Rock. This is assuming Lannisters do in fact descend from Lann the clever. Either way the Starks are an older name.

Sicne the Daynes and Starks both descend from the First Men, I would suspect their houses originate around roughly the same time, since there were no humans on Westeros before the First Men. I think the point Mladen was making is they are the oldest Lord Paramount ruling house to have their name. The Daynes rule Starfall, but the Starks were Wardens of the North, and previously Kings in the North, and are far older than any other lord paramount.

[TheCrannogDweller]

The Lannisters claim to descend from Lann the clever, who lived in the age of heroes which I believe happened after the Long Night. Before Lann the clever it was the Casterlys who held Casterly Rock. This is assuming Lannisters do in fact descend from Lann the clever. Either way the Starks are an older name.

The Starks also trace their descent from the Age of Heroes. Whether Bran and Lann were contemporaries is debatable, but it seems that Lannisters and Starks have been ruling their respective regions for almost the same period of time.

Sicne the Daynes and Starks both descend from the First Men, I would suspect their houses originate around roughly the same time, since there were no humans on Westeros before the First Men.

True, but geographically speaking, the Daynes would probably be older, since the invasion of the First Men started from the South.

And, btw, the Hightowers are also one of the oldest families in the Realm, since they too descend from the First Men and are located in the South.

[Juan_Snow]

I read a theory in one of the GNC threads that it there may be something magical behind it. The theory then went on to say the HM was Benjen for that reason. Basically Benjen knows what the real reason is and secretly went South of the wall at some point to hide in Winterfell. It was a really cool idea I thought and one of the theories I've read that I really hope is true.

[Groat]

The Starks also trace their descent from the Age of Heroes. Whether Bran and Lann were contemporaries is debatable, but it seems that Lannisters and Starks have been ruling their respective regions for almost the same period of time.

FYI Lannister is an Andal name. An Andal married the King of the Rock who descended from Lann the clever. The Lannisters have only been ruling for 4000 years at most.

True, but geographically speaking, the Daynes would probably be older, since the invasion of the First Men started from the South.

And, btw, the Hightowers are also one of the oldest families in the Realm, since they too descend from the First Men and are located in the South.

Neither Hightower nor the Daynes were ever kings, nor were they ever Lords Paramount. The Starks are the oldest family still rulling a kingdom.

[TheCrannogDweller]

FYI Lannister is an Andal name. An Andal married the King of the Rock who descended from Lann the clever. The Lannisters have only been ruling for 4000 years at most.

FYI, just because the Lannisters got assimilated into the Andal culture doesn't mean that their ancestors changed. They are still the descendants of Lann the Clever. And btw, the Starks were also broken in the male line, at least once - when Bael the Bard became the father of the only son (illegitimate at that) of one of the Stark kings' only daughter and heir.

Neither Hightower nor the Daynes were ever kings, nor were they ever Lords Paramount. The Starks are the oldest family still rulling a kingdom.

And technically, neither are the Starks (presently). I just meant that Daynes and Hightowers have been in control of their respective keeps for about as long as (or even longer than) the Starks have ruled Winterfell. Note that I'm talking about their castles and not their titles or the land that comes with them.

[Rishav Banka]

Starks are definitely the most ancient name.

Maybe Others started rising because starks have become weak in Winterfell.

Maybe it is named "Winterfell" for a reason.

Because it would be crazy to say that winter comes when there are no Starks in winterfell. There have been so many Winters in last 8000 yeras and one can't say that there wasn't a stark every time.

Also: Why do people think house Dayne is as old as House Stark? The wiki says that house Dayne has been ruling for centuries. and that they are Dornishmen.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Well, old or not, there seems to be something magically special about the Starks. The whole Stark generation as wargs is pretty impressive. And there's also the thing about the direwolves.

It could be Bloodraven, which would make it less impressive, but no less magical. Anyway I think BR could've given them the direwolves to help them awake their warg gift, but I don't think he could make people wargs. Just how I feel.

Anyway it seems to be possible to tie magic to a bloodline when we think about Targs/Valyrians. I believe the blood magic involved in hatching/taming dragons somehow ties them to a family. Also there's Mel's belief that there's power in the blood of a Kings descendant.

[WhiteWalder]

I have heard several theories that pertain to needing Starks in Winterfell. They may or may not be correct in part or in all, but this is a summary combining the ones I like:

The Stark bloodline is the glue that holds the spells together in the Wall and the North, keeping the Others out.

Why?

1. Because Bran the Builder was a Stark and he built both the Wall and Winterfell linking them both to the Starks and being part of the spells that built both.

2. The Great Other's magic does not have an effect on the Stark bloodline as much as other people. Evidence - Coldhands (enter Coldhands being a Stark theory - which is better than most of the Targ theories) The Others cannot turn Starks into a mindless wight, when a Stark is "turned" - they still keep their sentience and a part of themselves.

Having a Stark in Winterfell is essential to keeping the spells in the Wall and Winterfell viable.

[Rishav Banka]

2. The Great Other's magic does not have an effect on the Stark bloodline as much as other people. Evidence - Coldhands (enter Coldhands being a Stark theory - which is better than most of the Targ theories) The Others cannot turn Starks into a mindless wight, when a Stark is "turned" - they still keep their sentience and a part of themselves.

One may also use that logic to say that Night's king was a Stark and hence was not as severely affected by the magic of others

[Groat]

FYI, just because the Lannisters got assimilated into the Andal culture doesn't mean that their ancestors changed. They are still the descendants of Lann the Clever. And btw, the Starks were also broken in the male line, at least once - when Bael the Bard became the father of the only son (illegitimate at that) of one of the Stark kings' only daughter and heir.

And technically, neither are the Starks (presently). I just meant that Daynes and Hightowers have been in control of their respective keeps for about as long as (or even longer than) the Starks have ruled Winterfell. Note that I'm talking about their castles and not their titles or the land that comes with them.

The Lannisters did not get assimilated into Andal culture. The Lannisters are Andals, and married into the Kings of the Rock. The Lannister have been ruling for 4000 years, half the time the Starks have. I'm not sure why this is so hard to get. I agree that the Daynes are probably as old as the Starks, same as just about every other prominent lord in the North (The Boltons, the Umbers, the hill clans, etc...)

[Rishav Banka]

The Lannisters did not get assimilated into Andal culture. The Lannisters are Andals, and married into the Kings of the Rock. The Lannister have been ruling for 4000 years, half the time the Starks have. I'm not sure why this is so hard to get. I agree that the Daynes are probably as old as the Starks, same as just about every other prominent lord in the North (The Boltons, the Umbers, the hill clans, etc...)

Age of heroes started after the pact was signed between CotF and First men. Andal invasion happened 4000 years after that. So if Lannisters are actually descendants of Lann the clever and Lann was in age of heroes then that would mean that Age of Heroes Lasted for much more than 4000 Years(Assuming Lannisters are Andals)

Again: from where do we know that Daynes are as ancient as Starks? I read the wiki and it said that they have only been ruling for centuries?

I guess I forgot where this was mentioned. Can someone remind me please?

[Groat]

Again: from where do we know that Daynes are as ancient as Starks? I read the wiki and it said that they have only been ruling for centuries?

I guess I forgot where this was mentioned. Can someone remind me please?

I forget where, but I thought the Daynes are descendent from the First Men, which would put them as a family about as old as the Starks. Not sure where this comes from though.